Attacks on Hamas in Gaza are part of a world Jewish conspiracy, reports Greek newspaper

This report is from Ha’aretz

A daily newspaper in Greece has blamed Jews both for the world financial crisis and the Israeli operation in Gaza, the Jewish Telegraphic Agency reported this week.

“After the American Jews acquired once again the world’s wealth and plunged the planet into an unprecedented financial crisis, they started rehearsing for WWIII,” JTA quoted the Avriani newspaper’s front-page headline as reading Sunday.

“Midway through the paper’s story on Israel’s operation in Gaza, the story, under the heading ‘The Plan,’ explains that a Jewish plutocracy, having made the ‘wealth of the century at the expense of the economies of the world,’ is preparing to put in motion ‘war machines’ in various hot spots around the world in order to control the price of oil, redistribute the world’s natural resources and start a new cycle of weapons production,” JTA said.

The paper also blamed U.S. President-elect Barack Obama for “playing dead” in the present crisis by not saying anything against the Jews, urging him to prove that he is not owned by the Jewish lobby.

The day that Obama was elected president, the paper ran a headline that said, “The end of Jewish domination. Everything changes in the U.S.A. and we hope that it will be more democratic and humane,” drawing the ire of Jewish groups,” JTA reported.

This report is from Ha’aretz

73 Responses to “Attacks on Hamas in Gaza are part of a world Jewish conspiracy, reports Greek newspaper”

  1. Joshua Says:

    The Monday edition of Athens’ dailies at a glance

    [Extracts]

    The massacre in Gaza and concern over the economy in the midst of the global crisis dominated the headlines on Monday in Athens’ newspapers.

    AVRIANI: “Global outcry against the massacre of Palestinians – Americans’ stance was outrageous: They called the Hamas fighters ‘thugs’.”

    CHORA: “Massacre in Gaza – New bloodbath in Palestine”.

    ELEFTHERI ORA: “Gaza strip another Auswich”.

    ELETHEROS TYPOS: “Massacre in Gaza Strip on Christmas eve”.

    ELEFTHEROTYPIA: “Bloodbath in Gaza “.

    TA NEA: “Unarmed population’s slaughter with the US and Europe as spectators – The most deadly attack in the last 40 years”.

    VRADYNI: “Crucification instead of Hosanna – Hundreds of dead in Gaza after Israel’s merciless air raids”.

    http://tinyurl.com/9yaaek

  2. R. Says:

    Well they did. Remember the suicide bombing at the Cafeteria at Hebrew U.
    How about the killings of the students at a yeshiva a few months ago? I remember the act was justified by people like you.

  3. Robbins Says:

    “Does David Hirsh think that Palestinians should follow the Israeli example and bomb Israeli universities?”

    Hamas and some members of Fatah for that matter have been trying to bomb Israeli Universities as well as other public institutions for years. There was an attack on the Hebrew University a few years back in which a number of people were killed.

    The Islamic University was a target because of its involvement with the rocket launchers.

  4. Esther Says:

    Resistor,
    Israeli universities do not have weapons caches in them.

  5. Uri Golomb Says:

    Actually, Resistor, they already bomb Israeli Universities. See, for example, http://www.engageonline.org.uk/blog/article.php?id=1090.

  6. Gil Says:

    Resistor: that was a pretty stupid comment. On July 31, 2002 a bomb expolded in the cafeteria at the Hebrew University and killed 5 students, wounded 85.

    Also, you have utterly missed the point of David Hirsh’s piece.

  7. Inna Says:

    To me this is good news actually. They are no longer saying “Zionist”. The mask is beginning to come off–and it’s easier to deal with people who don’t hide their racism.

    Regards,

    Inna

  8. Gil Says:

    Here’s the link to the Hamas terrorist attack on the Hebrew University

    http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2002/7/Terrorist%20bombing%20at%20Hebrew%20University%20cafeteria%20-

    Nine people were actually killed, not as I said before.

  9. Inna Says:

    resistor:

    What action do you suggest Israel take to ensure the safety of Israelis–Arabs and Jews alike.

    After all, were not talking about indiscriminate bombing (the very fact that 300 people are dead–about how many live in a single apartment building and that 64 of them are civilians according to the UN) is testimony to that.

    As for the Islamic University: the IAF targeted two labs that were being used to develop and store the rockets one of which murdered an Arab today. Don’t you care about that? Don’t you care about the fact that a place of learning was perverted into a place of war?

    And don’t you care about the fact that Hamas is not letting women and children who are wounded leave Gaza to seek medical attention? I am hearing that some of their terrorists are being treated in Israeli hospitals–but even the BBC showed how a man bearing a child was turned away from a Gazan hospital.. while an armed Hamas thug was given treatment.

    Where is your outrage at this? Do you care about the civilians in this war or do you care only that with every terrorist dead, the chances that Iran-backed Hamas will succeed in wiping six million Jews off the map grows ever dimmer?

    Regards,

    Inna

  10. fred Says:

    Inna: what’s your source about those labs?

  11. Inna Says:

    fred:

    Two sources that I have been watching:

    Khaleej Times: http://www.khaleejtimes.com/darticlen.asp?xfile=data/middleeast/2008/December/middleeast_December583.xml&section=middleeast&col=

    and JPost: http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1230111723191&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

    I am sure there are others.. but that (and blogs) is what I have been watching.

    Regards,

    Inna

  12. Inna Says:

    Fred: I don’t know how closely you follow Pajamas Media but here is their (quite detailed) report on the university: http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/israel-targets-terror-labs-funded-by-us-islamic-group/

    If that’s way more information than you wanted, in the future tell me exactly how much information you want and that’s all I’ll provide. (I tell my friend this more frequently than I care to admit)

    Inna

  13. resistor Says:

    So Inna’s sources are identically worded and one is identified as the IDF/IAF So no doubt there then.

    So Inaa’s point must be that only Israeli Universities which do defence research should be bombed, i.e. all of them.

    Inna’s willingness to recycle Israeli propaganda and her lack of compassion for the victims of the bombing is testament to the true nature of this site.

  14. Gil Says:

    Resistor, did you have compassion for the Jewish victims of the Hamas bomb at the Hebrew University, Mt. Scopus on July 31, 2002? For the victims of Hamas rockets over the last 6 months?

    Your lack of compassion for Jewish victims of Hams terror is testament to your true nature.

  15. Jonathan Romer Says:

    Resistor,

    This is a post about open antisemitism in Greece. Did that escape your attention, or is it something that you feel the need to divert attention from?

    Greek antisemitism is not exactly a new or unfamiliar phenomenon — though the degree on display in Avriani is a sign of how the post-war taboos are fading — but it’s not something I understand. Does anyone have a nutshell explanation of why it is such a problem there?

  16. fred Says:

    Inna: thanks for the links. As for your comment about a place for learning being perverted into a place for war, at the least, military R & D is a fact of life at many universities.

  17. resistor Says:

    Jonathan Romer writes, ‘This is a post about open antisemitism in Greece. Did that escape your attention?’

    No, but the bombing of a university in Gaza seems to have escaped Hirsh’s attention, or rather is something he wants to ‘divert attention from’.

    When will he be brave enough to offer an opinion? We’re waiting.

  18. Robbins Says:

    Here is what the BBC said about the attack on the Islamic University:

    “Earlier, a raid destroyed a science building at the Islamic University in Gaza – a centre of support for the Islamist militant group that controls the narrow coastal strip. Many top Hamas officials graduated from there.”

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7802515.stm

    It’s a specific building at the University that was targeted and not the whole university.

  19. Robbins Says:

    “No, but the bombing of a university in Gaza seems to have escaped Hirsh’s attention, or rather is something he wants to ‘divert attention from’.”

    Hirsh doesn’t need to answer your leading questions, Resistor.

    It’s obvious that the attacks on a building at the University was chosen for its military value and that the whole university wasn’t attacked.

  20. m Says:

    “When will he be brave enough to offer an opinion? We’re waiting.”

    Oh resistor – you really are quite cute, aren’t you? Did you stomp your feet while typing this?

  21. David Says:

    “A daily newspaper in Greece has blamed Jews both for the world financial crisis and the Israeli operation in Gaza, the Jewish Telegraphic Agency reported this week.”

    There are two very different statements here. The world’s financial crisis being blamed on “the Jews” is clearly ludicrous and deserves to be flagged up as anti-semitic.

    I would suggest that blaming “the Jews” for Israeli operations (i.e. the violent assault on, and collective punishment of, the population of Gaza) is more complicated. Israel describes itself as the Jewish State and has co-opted the Star of David as its symbol. It is therefore not surprising that in many parts of the world, Jews and Israel are thought of as coterminous. Is it really any different to describe the activities the Israeli government as being the actions of “the Jews” as it is to describe the actions of the Uk government as those of “the English?” In the case of the Greek newpapers anti-semitism may be behind the confusion, but it could also be argued that Israel is using the wider population of Jews throughout the world as a human shield of sorts to justify its aggression against its neighbours.

  22. Saul Says:

    Interesting.

    “Resistor” (tee hee) comes to a site dedicated to opposing antisemitism and demands that those who talk about antisemitism offer a comment about what is going on in Gaza.

    One wonders, but not for very long, whether “resistor” (tee hee) goes to the many blogs currently discussing the current crisis in Gaza and “demands” they talk about antisemitism.

  23. Observer Says:

    ‘divert attention from’.

    Saul,
    As the post above shows, Resistor has made it perfectly clear what he thinks of the unearthing of contemporary antisemitism. He thinks that reporting antisemitism is nothing more than a “diversion” from what is “really” happening. He either does not have the sense to realise that antisemites will attempt to make hay around the political crisis in Israel and Gaza and/or believes antisemitism is a legitmiate response to such events and/or believes that such antisemitism is a lie made up by “Zionists” to “divert attention”.
    Evidently, thinking politically is not his or her forte

  24. Jonathan Romer Says:

    Resistor,

    In translation, that would be: “This is your blog and we’ll talk about whatever I want to talk about”? Try going back to Harry’s Place; they’re more accommodating of that there, as you know.

    So, anyway, what is it with Greece and antisemitism — anyone know?

  25. Yehuda Erdman Says:

    There is going to be much more of the same and not just from Greece. It is essential for Israel to unilaterally halt the pounding of Gaza, and not to contemplate a ground offensive, NO good will come of that.
    Now the point has been clearly made that Hamas must pay and indeed has just paid the price for their rediculous game of raising the stakes to the point where their bluff was called. Back to diplomacy, arm-twisting etc. to try and find a path through the minefield that is Gaza. The USA and the Quartet and the UN have to play their role as from here.

  26. resistor Says:

    Perhaps Hirsh has been called up into the IDF reserve. Let’s hope he’s the first into Gaza on foot.

  27. Jon Says:

    I think Resistor’s point is well made. Does Engage support the bombing of Palestinian Universities?

    Or the students waiting at a bus stop who got blown to bits?

    But how typical to witter on about anti-semitism in Greek newspapers while this shameful massacre is going on.

  28. Observer Says:

    Resistor,
    Your petulance says it all. This is a thread abouut antisemitism. You want to change it to the situation in Gaza. In refusing to dance to your tune, you fall back on allegations that are typical of the racism that infects debates on contemporary affairs. You allege,
    1 that the post on antisemitism in Greece is a “diversion”
    2 That Hirsh is an Israeli or that his ties to Israel are such that he is a member of the IDF reserves.
    You are angry, and so you take out your anger of those opposes to racism and antisemitism.
    You are typical of the mob populism which comprises so much of the aura that surrounds the the politics of the Middle East.

  29. Brian Goldfarb Says:

    And perhaps resistor is an anti-zionist and antisemite and perhaps he’ll be the last out of Gaza on a stretcher. Is that what you want to hear in reply to your (barely veiled) antisemitism? Well, that first sentence is exactly what you’ve been writing, but mine is merely a reflection of yours – I don’t _actually_ mean it. I don’t wish physical hurt or premature death on anyone. That doesn’t mean that I shrink from a fight, though.

    So, how about some facts here? Facts are generally a good idea, even if your motto, resistor, is “my mind is made up, don’t confuse me with the facts”. Let us start by noting that even Jeremy Bowen, of the BBC, not too often these days noted for its even-handedness on Israel/Palestine, says that 300 rockets have been fired from Gaza into Israel since the end of the cease fire. That’s 100 a week, 14 or 15 a day, all directed at Sderot and Ashkelon. And a cousin who lives in Israel says that even during the so-called cease fire, rockets _still_ came in from Gaza, though only a handful, maybe a dozen a week or so.

    Up to 4 days ago, there had been no retaliation by Israel, so Israel’s retaliation is only disproportionate if you refuse to see the previous rocket firings as irrelevant. The fact that only 4 Israelis, at the time of writing, had died has nothing to do with Hamas’ self-proclaimed antisemitic intentions (see its Charter, passim), and everything to with the preparedness of Israelis. The figures the UN has given also suggest that, despite Hamas’ and other organisations sympathetic to Hamas ideological claims, 80% of the Gazan casualties may well be counted as “military” rather than civilian, whereas so far 100% of Israel’s deaths have been civilian.

    And it should be borne in mind (will you bear it in mind, resistor?) that Israel is a sovreign state, recognised as a member in good standing of the UN and acknowledged by the overwhelming majority of commentators on this matter as entitled to defend its territorial integrity – which means, inter alia, not having rockets fired into its territory.

    So, while this thread is on antisemitism in the Greek press, your refusal to focus on that means that you expose the continual stream of assertion, innuendo and downright antisemitic claptrap (whether intended or not) you write to our attention. We collectively demand (of each other as well as those who seek to attack us) evidence, followed by rational and logical argument. You provide none of this. So, either provide some reasoned argument based on evidence for your insults, or go away until you can do so.

  30. Inna Says:

    resistor: the fact that two newspapers (both concerned with the events in Gaza though on opposite sides as it were) say the same thing means (to me) that they both consider the information to be credible. I always double-check my sources, you see.

    The rest of your postings here (as has been pointed out to you and far more eloquently than I could do) is not terribly thinly veiled anti-Semitic claptrap. Further you are spreading this claptrap in a deliberate attempt to insult your virtual host, David Hirsh.

    I therefore conclude that you seem to be a racist and that you are definitely rude.

  31. resistor Says:

    Goldfarb is very selective with his ‘facts’, ignoring the many breaches of the truce by Israel.

    http://www.lrb.co.uk/v31/n01/roy_01_.html

    ‘Israel’s siege of Gaza began on 5 November, the day after an Israeli attack inside the strip, no doubt designed finally to undermine the truce between Israel and Hamas established last June. Although both sides had violated the agreement before, this incursion was on a different scale. Hamas responded by firing rockets into Israel and the violence has not abated since then.’

    ‘On 5 November the Israeli government sealed all the ways into and out of Gaza. Food, medicine, fuel, parts for water and sanitation systems, fertiliser, plastic sheeting, phones, paper, glue, shoes and even teacups are no longer getting through in sufficient quantities or at all. According to Oxfam only 137 trucks of food were allowed into Gaza in November. This means that an average of 4.6 trucks per day entered the strip compared to an average of 123 in October this year and 564 in December 2005. The two main food providers in Gaza are the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) and the World Food Programme (WFP). UNRWA alone feeds approximately 750,000 people in Gaza, and requires 15 trucks of food daily to do so. Between 5 November and 30 November, only 23 trucks arrived, around 6 per cent of the total needed; during the week of 30 November it received 12 trucks, or 11 per cent of what was required. There were three days in November when UNRWA ran out of food, with the result that on each of these days 20,000 people were unable to receive their scheduled supply. ‘

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/apr/16/israel

    ‘Israel’s policy was summed up by Dov Weisglass, an adviser to Ehud Olmert, the Israeli Prime Minister, earlier this year. ‘The idea is to put the Palestinians on a diet, but not to make them die of hunger,’ he said. The hunger pangs are supposed to encourage the Palestinians to force Hamas to change its attitude towards Israel or force Hamas out of government.’

    So the Palestinians in Gaza have suffered the ‘Zionist’ diet for more than two years proving the ‘good standing’ of Israel at the UN. They now need to treat their wounded with the little medical supplies allowed through by their tormentors.

    As for Goldfarb’s lies, threats and insults, I would expect anything better from a Zionist,do keep on exposing yourselves for the fascists you are.

  32. Inna Says:

    RE: Greece and anti-Semitism in Europe generally.

    You know Brian it’s laughable. You have anti-Semitism in Greece, “polite” official anti-Semitism in the UK and the not-so polite (see resistor) and then you have the BBC moaning that Israel doesn’t care what (anti-Semitic) European governments say. Well, why should ANY Jew listen to an anti-Semite?

    Regards,

    Inna

  33. Inna Says:

    resistor–

    Thank you for confirming to me that Jews who are still in Europe, including the UK should get the heck out.

    Regards,

    Inna

  34. Inna Says:

    “the little medical supplies allowed through by their tormentors.”

    Please cite another country supplying the country with which it is at war with medical supplies.

    Thanks,

    Inna

  35. jd Says:

    the lrb or the Guardian (especially the lrb) are not unbiased source, resistor.

    The IDF went into Gaza in order to stop arms and rocket smuggling into Gaza.

    The idea that Gaza was without food and medicine is also a BIG LIE.

    How is it that Hamas can smuggle tons of weaponry but not food and medicine.

    Besides Israel has been allowing tons of food stuff through to Gaza even while the fighting is in progress.

    It is Hamas who likes to claim that Israel has unilaterally sealed off Gaza when in fact the embargo is part of internationally agreed upon sanctions and Egypt too is participating in the embargo of weaponry into the strip.

  36. Curious Says:

    Resistor,

    You obviously have thought about this issue a great deal. The current discussion is not really informative.

    Perhaps you could tell us what your view is of how the current situation can be/could have been avoided, and what you think should happen in the future.

    Correspondingly, perhaps you could tell us your thoughts about the orginal post regarding the story of the idea of a “Jewish conspiracy” in the Greek media.

    These are serious matters.

  37. jd Says:

    For your information:

    even in the Arab world there is no unanimity on who is to blame for the current conflict with Hamas:

    Arab Leaders, Civilians Blame Hamas for Gaza Violence

    http://www.theisraelproject.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=hsJPK0PIJpH&b=689705&ct=6477719

  38. Robbins Says:

    Excellent analysis by MONA ELTAHAWY

    “Israel is the opium of the people, and other Arab taboos”

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081229.wcogaza30/BNStory/specialComment/?page=rss&id=RTGAM.20081229.wcogaza30

  39. jd Says:

    Is there a guide somewhere on how to post here?

    I found that a submission of mine was deleted. Are references to articles on other websites not allowed?

  40. David Says:

    I would be interested to know what the criteria are for being moderated out of the postings, as my two previous posts were on this topic.

  41. resistor Says:

    Inna, you are beyond satire.

    The Israelis turn the tap on and off to torment the Gazans, viz

    ‘The idea is to put the Palestinians on a diet, but not to make them die of hunger,’

    as put by your comrade Dov Weisglass.

    I’m sure the Palestinians are suitably grateful for the Israeli generosity, providing both the bombs and the bandages (or at least a few bandages).

    What wonderful people you Zionists are!

  42. Inna Says:

    “What wonderful people you Zionists are!”

    Say what you mean “resistor”. You don’t mean Zionists; you mean Jews.

    Oh, and the Jews are much nicer than Hamas. You see, Hamas won’t let civilians seek treatment:

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ipy-I4l8HBUyagJsP_RJwLFRWkbQ

    Regards,

    Inna

  43. Inna Says:

    resistor:

    Do you care that Hamas won’t let women and children seek treatment? Or are you just enraged by the fact that the only medical help the Arab civilians are getting is coming from Jews?

    Regards,

    Inna

  44. Brian Goldfarb Says:

    So resistor not only reveals him/herself as an antisemite, he/she also reveals themself as a person who prefers to insult those who choose to engage with them rather than debate with those people. So far, there has been no answer to the point that 300 rockets have been launched into Israel in the 10 days (not 3 weeks as I mistakenly calculated) since the end of the cease fire – 30 a day, as attested to by Jeremy Bowen, not noted for his philo-Israeli feelings, as opposed to the 1 or 2 a day _during_ the “cease fire”.

    You ignore the provocation offered to a sovreign member of the UN, you offer false analogies with previous historic episodes, you make no longer concealed antisemitic statements, and then you expect us to take you seriously.

    Read the David Aaronovitch article in yesterday’s Times, ponder his conclusion, and then _think_ (rather than just react) about how, if at all, you will respond.

    Until then, shut up with the antisemitism. It’s people like you who give those who wish for a settlement (_any_ settlement) in the Middle East a distinctly bad name – so bad, a nasty odour comes from it.

    And you’re as bad as the Deborah’s, referring to me by surname only: the last thing you are is an Oxbridge don or top civil servant to refer to someone by only their surname: you clearly wouldn’t last a week in such an intellectually rarefied atmosphere.

  45. Joshua Says:

    Does anyone know if “resistor” is related to Seumas Milne?

    http://tinyurl.com/7uw9qo

  46. Brian Goldfarb Says:

    resistor might care to look at this website and this report. Not that it will change his/her mind: mere israeli/Zionist/Jewish propoganda, of course. Nothing to do with the truth – the first casualty, etc…

    http://www.honestreporting.com/a/breaking_point.asp

    Actually, given that Deborah Fink was the only previous person to refer to me purely by surname (no honorifics, first name, etc), perhaps resisitor actually _is_ Deborah Fink, posting under a new name to avoid the usual battering she gets. Not that doing the same thing under a different name stops the intellectual battering, of course. If not actually Deborah F., certainly a (poor) surrogate for her and her ilk.

  47. john strawson Says:

    Two issues have become confused; the Israeli action in Gaza and the anti-Semitic analysis in the Greek press – and others. It is erroneous to think that to oppose the anti-Semitic commentary you need to support Israel’s action. Hamas undoubtedly has provoked the attack – indeed the only purpose of the rocket and mortar attacks on Israel is provocation. It maybe that in this round the Hamas leadership are hoping to emulate Hezbollah in the July 206 war. The results of that war – also the result of a provocation – weakened Israel and transformed the position of Hezbollah in Lebanon, I do not think that the same will result now. However, the Israeli response is a humanitarian tragedy for the people of Gaza, strategically dubious and politically problematic. If terrorism and generally and Hamas in particularly could have been rooted out by military means it seems odd that Israel did not act when Hamas was weaker – in the 1990’s for example. The strategic goal is in my view unachievable as Hamas is not just a terrorist organization but a political organization with deep roots in the Middle East – going back to the 1920’s. As a result I think that as the military action cannot achieve its ends (and the rockets do continue – with greater strategic depth) that must call into question its legal basis as the critical criteria is the likelihood of achieving military advantage – see The Hague Conventions 1899 and 1907). However, some of the discourse about Israel is couched in anti-Semitic tones which must be opposed. While Israel is responsible for its actions, so is Hamas. At root the situation is the refusal of the international community (the Quartet) to engage with the conflict earlier, and on Gaza not have acted in 2005 after the Israeli disengagement. Gaza should have become a UN trust territory with a UN force responsible for security with the purpose of creating the conditions for a Palestinian state in Gaza and the West Bank. That should be the objective now. All the anti-Semitic rhetoric – and images, see the Independent cartoon yesterday – are not just about reinforcing racism but discrediting the idea of a peaceful solution. The purpose of the anti-Semitic discourse should not be ignored it is to cast Jews as essentially violent, inhuman and wedded to expansionism – and thus using this racist stereotype to bury the hope of peace.

  48. Brian Goldfarb Says:

    This is not to ignore John Strawson’s comment above – it needs a bit more than 2 hours or so to absorb before commenting on a contribution that says most (perhaps close to all) that needs to be said. My purpose here is to wonder aloud why a contributor to this forum would call themselves after an item of electrical equipment? But perhaps this just demonstrates “resistor’s” general grasp of these matters – poor – and level of spelling – equally poor.

  49. Brian Goldfarb Says:

    to Robbins, thanks for the link to the Globe & Mail: a very interesting op-ed article, and a neat summary of many attitudes in and on the region. To David and jd re posting here: you need to ask the moderators, because we’va all had comments rejected, for whatever reason. I had a long one against a particular pro-boycotter rejected, so what? Occasionally, they just vanish into cyberspace, never to be seen again.

    That said, and annoying as it is for our bon mots to disappear for ever, we should be thankful that there _are_ moderators: just look at Comment is Free over at the online version of the Guardian, which used to be even less moderated than it is now, and it’s still pretty bad on occasions.

  50. Robbins Says:

    Brian here another article analyzing the media’s failure to report events in Gaza:

    http://www.theaugeanstables.com/2008/12/31/revealing-silence-at-the-egyptian-border-why-does-hamas-victimize-its-own/

    “Revealing Silence at the Egyptian Border: Why does Hamas victimize its own?”

    December 31, 2008

  51. shriber Says:

    I agree with john strawson that the antisemitism in evidence in the criticism of Israel doesn’t mean that that country’s actions were correct.

    Still, it’s easy to say that Gaza should have become a UN trust territory, though the U.N.’s presence elsewhere doesn’t give one much hope that it would have changed anything.

    Yes, I share his frustration with Israeli policy choices. Too often the Israeli government acts like its only interested in short term goals without thinking of long term consequences.

    Personally, I would have hoped that Egypt would have been given back the territory it ruled till 1967.

    This said, I wonder how Professor Strawson would have dealt with the ongoing rockets barrage on Israeli towns.

    Moreover, antisemitism too is a reality and it is tainting the discourse and this too needs to be dealt with. Here too I am frustrated with Israeli policy which till very recently it had paid hardly and official attention to the presence of antisemitism on the international scene. It had believed against the evidence that antisemitism was important only to Jewish people living elsewhere and that to Jews living in Israel it was of little consequence.

  52. Saul Says:

    Could someone link the Indepedendent cartoon Strawson refers to.
    Thanks

  53. Observer Says:

    I note that “resistor” has ignored the request to expound his or her views requested by “curious” and has instead resorted to the populism of calling those with whom they disagree”fascist” and “you Zionists”.
    Why am I not surpised.

  54. resistor Says:

    Observer, I have replied several times but I keep getting deleted. That’s what I call academic freedom!

  55. resistor Says:

    As for the Orwellian named ‘honestreporting’ it was set up by the far-right religious extremists Aish HaTorah .

    http://jeffreygoldberg.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/10/the_jewish_extremists_behind_o.php

    Goldberg is prophetic when he quotes an Aish HaTorah member Ronn Torossian,

    ‘Torossian and I started talking about Israel’s right to reprisal for terrorist attacks. I was arguing in favor of some sort of proportionality (this was after Jenin, in which the Israeli army chose to root out terrorism block by block rather than bomb the city from the air) but Torossian interrupted: “I think we should kill a hundred Arabs or a thousand Arabs for every one Jew they kill.” I was somewhat taken aback, of course, because this is a Nazi idea, rather than a Jewish idea.’

  56. Saul Says:

    I wish Resistor would take his or her Zionism elsewhere.
    “Academic freedom”?
    1. You have yet to illustrate any academic standards. Screaming fascist and Zionist does not constitue academic writing.
    2. Being excluded from a blog has nothing to do with “academic freedom”. Many blogs, as with newspapers, journals, etc. have editorial policy.
    You really have no idea what you are talking about.

    It could well be that you see the killing of Palestinians as no more than an opportunity to continue your absurd obsession with David Hirsh. Go masturbate over the corpses elsewhere.

  57. resistor Says:

    Brilliant, propaganda outfit, The Israel Projects used as a source.

    One of their staff is Barbara Ledeen, wife of Michael Ledeen, originator of the Ledeen Doctrine.

    http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YTFhZGQ4Y2IyZmNlY2QyNDkwZTlkZjFkYjZiNWY0YzU=

    “Every ten years or so, the United States needs to pick up some small crappy little country and throw it against the wall, just to show the world we mean business.”

    Barbara and Michael got their daughter a job in Iraq,

    http://dir.salon.com/opinion/feature/2003/12/17/neocons/

    ‘There was little love in the room for Marshall. He recently co-wrote an article for the Washington Monthly about the qualifications, or lack thereof, of members of the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq. In it, he questioned whether 29-year-old Simone Ledeen, daughter of Michael and Barbara and advisor for northern Iraq at the Ministry of Finance in Baghdad, had enough experience to be charged with reshaping a quarter of Iraq’s economy. At the end of the talk, Barbara Ledeen barreled forward to yell at him, wagging her finger in his face and shouting, “Shame on you!”

    An impeccable source of information on the war crimes in Gaza – I think not.

  58. Observer Says:

    Try again.

  59. Observer Says:

    So far, resistor, your comments are as follows,

    I demand David Hirsh speak
    You are all fascists and “Zionists”
    You merely repeat propoganda

    Could we please have some substance. Maybe you could model you response on John Strawson’s contribution. Take your time, it need not be immediate.

  60. Observer Says:

    “Could we please have some substance. Maybe you could model you response on John Strawson’s contribution. Take your time, it need not be immediate.”

    We still await.

  61. Observer Says:

    The fact that “resistor” has reduced JS’s comments to such a degree indicates precisely the paucity of their thought.

    Of course, maybe Hamas did not fire rockets into Israel. Maybe they do not call for the destruction of Israel. Maybe they are not a proxy of Iran. Maybe they did not murder members of the PLO. Maybe they did not murder Trade Unionists (which, as a member of the UCU resistor would, you think, object, but has hitherto remained silent on).

    Maybe “resistor” can tell us why the same assault (which I oppose, by the way for countless reasons) is not going on in the PA. Could it be that the PLO has not continued to fire rockets at civilians. Or does that not count?

  62. Karl Pfeifer Says:

    The picture of a Jew bathing in blood is an old antisemitic one. Even after the Holocaust
    Jews were accused to perform ritual murders.
    So The Independent is repeating the age old blood libel against Olmert. Such caricatures were also published by the Nazis and by the Soviet propaganda.

  63. Saul Says:

    Karl,
    Of course you are right (and which explains also why so many Israeli PM’s have been caricatured in such a way (remember the Sharon eating babies cartoon from the same paper)). That is why, of course, the reference to LBJ is banal, (although, if one were to search, I would not be surpised to find LBJ looking “Jewish” somewhere)

    The fact is that Resistor has no sense of anything. Of history or of politics. They have reduced the complexity Israel/Palestine conflict to a manichean struggle of eschatological proportions, and, in so doing, have left the real world, and all its difficulties, far behind them.

    I write this as someone who, like many on the Israeli left and a few on the British left, opposes completely what Israel is doing now and has been doing for the past months in Gaza and as someone who refuses to be seduced by the reactionary nature of Hamas.

  64. Jonathan Romer Says:

    Saul (et al),

    Of course Resistor has no sense of anything. He’s not here for understanding or debate, he’s here to troll. He has trolled on Harry’s Place for years; I guess he’s just discovered Engage and fancies dining at a new buffet now. You can feed him or ignore him. Feed him and he’ll be back for more.

  65. fred Says:

    Inna: the PA is also preventing Gazans from getting medical treatment:

    http://www.forward.com/articles/14832/
    Wounded Gazans Denied Transfers to Israeli Hospitals
    Palestinian Authority Is Blocking Access to Medical Care in Israel

  66. fred Says:

    John Strawson:

    “..its legal basis as the critical criteria is the likelihood of achieving military advantage”

    are you saying the legality of Israel’s actions is determined by whether or not they’re successful?

  67. Inna Says:

    John–

    I once thought that a NATO strusteesip for Gaza might be a good idea because Egypt has been making moves to basically absorb Gaza since 2005.

    However, the rampant anti-Semitism in Europe has changed my mind. I really don’t think it’s a good idea to even have NATO troops in a dangerous territory, on Israel’s border.

    The troops will be kidnapped, shot at, and killed–and Jews the world over will (once again) be held responsible for something Hamas did. I guess you could say the Greeks et. al. have changed my mind.

    Regards,

    Inna

  68. Inna Says:

    Resistor:

    Here’s what an Egyptian blogger has to say about all this:

    My head hurts

    First Hamas refuses to let Egypt receive the wounded through the Rafah crossing, saying that Egypt has to open the entire crossing for the million and a half Ghazan, or else they won’t get to treat their wounded.. Think about this one for a minute. Let it simmer. When it makes sense to you, let me know.

    Then Israeli pundits say that while the air strike is successful, they might need to do a ground incursion, thus proving that Israel is a nation suffering from an Alzheimer epidemic and doesn’t remember anything about the last war with Lebanon.

    And then the Palestinians in Ghaza break through the Rafah crossing, and kill an egyptian officer in the process, and nobody minds, of course..

    And then Nasrallah gets on TV, calls on the egyptian people to revolt by the millions and open up the by-now-open Rafah crossing by force, and on the egyptian military to take a stand against the political leadership and “join the resistance”.

    And finally, in Iraq, and I wish I was kidding, a suicide bomber blew himself up in the middle of a Pro-Palestinian demonstration.

    You figure it out!

    http://www.sandmonkey.org/2008/12/28/my-head-hurts/

    Regards,

    Inna

  69. Inna Says:

    Fred–

    I guess I almost get the Fatah thing. The civil war between Fatah and Hamas is still ongoing; Fatah is still rounding up (and killing) Hamas members in the west Bank and Hamas is doing the same to Fatah in Gaza. And even before the civil war, Gazans and West Bankers were not always on the best of terms.

    Frankly, I don’t think it’s possible for there to be (right now) a single Palestinian State. Of course there was a time when many (myself included) thought it was not possible for Sharon to pull out of Gaza…

    But for Hamas to do that to its own people and for Palestinians to NOT rebel … it’s beyond me.

    Regards,

    Inna

  70. Brian Goldfarb Says:

    Robbins, thanks again. Resistor, et al, won’t read it, of course, because it is, after all, only zionist propoganda, whereas what s/he presents is nothing but the varnished truth.

  71. Saul Says:

    “the rampant anti-Semitism in Europe has changed my mind”.

    There is no “rampant anti-semitism” in Europe. There is antisemitism and it does feel quite tangible at the moment; but rampant it ain’t.
    Regards,
    Saul

  72. Inna Says:

    “There is antisemitism and it does feel quite tangible at the moment; but rampant it ain’t.”

    OK–the anti-Semitism that springs up whenever there is a crisis. After all, Gaza is not likely to be a quiet place for NATO troops, is it? It will be one crisis after another–and Jews will be blamed for all of them.

    Regards,

    Inna

  73. Jacob Says:

    I’m so sick and tired of this glorified tribalism on all sides. The problems in this world are more complicated than who was born where or to whom – or for that matter to get bogged down debating variances in DNA or any other ethnocentric bullshit. People function within a given perspective framework…. all the problems and conflicts are the result of the apparent disparities between perspectives. During the first world war men fought each other for years not because they hated the ‘heathen’ they would be killing (they did not know them) but for believing they hated them. The weak, many poor and ignorant people get caught in the middle of these ridiculously contrived power games; themselves the result of centuries idiocy, half truths, manipulation, greed, falsehood, ego, and many other kinds of psychological externalizations. Power does what it wants. It always has. Its people, whos interests are practically always the same that get used. They want to live without oppression and persecution from any perceived ‘superior’ – this is true of financial wealth and oppression as well as any form of national oppression or other physical impositions. Then people (oppressed by a world system) – not jewish, not british, not american, not chinese, but a world framework of limited perspective and self interest – are sold on the idea that the ‘heathen’ or other is the source of the problem. I can’t count the number of nazi scale ignoramuses ive encountered in my life. They identify problems as being linear ‘they hate us’ ‘we hate them’ ‘were different’ ‘thou shalt not kill – unless we wave a flag a blow a trumpet’ the whole thing is insanity. “Flags are colored bits of cloth used first to shrimp wrap peoples brains, then to ceremonially bury the dead” “Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious” “When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world shall know peace” As long as our laws are created by the powerful, our leaders are corrupt and power loving, our social systems unequal, our self interest pandered to, our lives given to the ‘State’ the ‘Fuhrer Principe’ the ‘Boss’ The ‘Institution’ The ‘Company’ or any other artificial creation we will never have peace or any kind or real world solution… we will just have fun playing the game and the roles we assign ourselves or more often than not, we are given. You fucking people BAFFLE me. You don’t really care for anyone but your team, your country, your flag, your family. One day maybe we will realize and then we can all live in the ‘promised land’ – sadly i feel if we don’t see our own flaws sooner rather than later and keep focusing on ‘that other guy’ then we will all destroy ourselves internally as well as externally.


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