When blood libel becomes part of ‘kultur’

Petra Marquardt-Bigman reflects on the appearance (about which we posted previously) of an old libel in the Kultur section of a Swedish newspaper, and considers thinkers and writers who try to make the Israel-Nazi comparison respectable.

“It was doubtless a coincidence that on two consecutive days, two major publications in two European countries gave out the message that Israel deserves to be compared to the Nazis – but it was arguably a revealing coincidence.”

Read it all.

Update: David T discusses on the origins of the organ theft story and, despite being unfounded, observes it taking hold.

38 Responses to “When blood libel becomes part of ‘kultur’”

  1. omadeon Says:

    I have ALWAYS, and VERY STRICTLY avoided ANY comparison between Israel and the Nazis, and also suggest strongly to all my Greek friends to do the same….

    Any criticism of Israel that genuinely aims to improve the treatment of Palestinians, if it makes such a gross mistake, in reality it does NOTHING good for them but it only aggravates their own dosage of Holocaust Denial (a serious problem of Arabs, Iranians and Palestinians – RARELY discussed in most western media).

  2. Susan Says:

    This is from http://www.ynetnews.com, the English web site of the Israeli newspaper Yediot Aharanot:

    “Aftonbladet’s editor-in-chief, Jan Helin, says he green-lighted report accusing IDF soldiers of harvesting Palestinians’ organs because it ‘raises some questions. He confesses, however, that paper has no evidence of such practices.”

    This is bad journalism. Even a mediocre journalist should know better. It also morally reprehensible to print something so inflammatory without evidence.

  3. Karl Pfeifer Says:

    Media usually speak about “presumed perpetrator”. But when unfounded statements are made about IDF those are accepted by most of the media as facts, for in the case of IDF
    insufficient and flawed information is quite often published. The motive is often to be able to compare the Jewish state with the nazi.

  4. Academic Says:

    There’s an excellent article about the Aftonbladet affair in today’s Haaretz by Gideon Levy

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1110401.html

    • Mira Vogel Says:

      I think he could do with stopping measuring antisemitism by motives and start looking at effects. I think it is quite interesting, this phenomenon of objecting to something more because it’s a gift to the political right than because it’s antisemitic. A ‘stop scaring the horses’ approach. In Israel, it sometimes seems as if the political left has in some way ceded concern about antisemitism to the political right.

      • Gil Says:

        Yes, that’s true. And sometimes I feel the same about this country. I’ve commented before that Melanie Phillips has said things about ]antisemitism that Engage could very easily agree with. Yet, some people expressed some dislike of this and used this as an opportunity to attack her on other grounds.

        I don’t agree carte blanche with everything she says about Israel but on antisemitism she is, many times, spot on.

  5. owlminerva Says:

    Actually there are more and more reports coming out on the trouble with organ transplants in Israel. I actually kind of find it very racist of you to assume that all these eye witness reports from Arabs on missing body parts that have been coming out of West Bank and Gaza for years are all to be dismissed. Do you think only Jews speak the truth? Is the underlying idea that Arabs can’t be trusted? There have been problems with organ transplants in other parts of the world as well. Why could it not be happening in Israel? Is Israel above such criminality? Once again, instead of going into your standard hysteria mode it might be wiser to call for an investigation. If these things are really going on I assume you would want to know about it? Anyway, in case anybody is interested, Alison Weir wrote an interesting article about it in counterpunch, it is sort of a collection of damning material that when taken together seems to beg for an investigation.
    http://www.counterpunch.org/weir08282009.html
    I believe when so many people report such crimes then it should be looked into. I believe that is what they would do in most civilized countries. I hope that would take me serious if i end up with a family member that comes back to me without a heart and I want it to be looked into. I don’t see why Arabs should be treated different.

  6. Jacob Says:

    owlminerva Says:
    “Actually there are more and more reports coming out on the trouble with organ transplants in Israel. I actually kind of find it very racist of you to assume that all these eye witness reports from Arabs on missing body parts that have been coming out of West Bank and Gaza for years are all to be dismissed. Do you think only Jews speak the truth?”

    This is a bizarre as well as antisemitic defense of the indefensible. The very tone of your attack, owl, is antisemitic. Should Israel also investigate the claims of Holocaust what about the claims the blood libel claims that Jews bake matzos with the blood of gentiles. Are we being racists for not taking seriously the claim that “Jews killed Jesus?”

    Besides, what eye witness reports are these? So far all the reports have been hearsay which to say gossip. If someone has definite evidence they should lay it out. It’s up to the complainant to show that there is merit in their accusation. So far this has not been done.

    There are problems with organ stealing world wide and this has been the case even in Israel. But so far the only cases uncovered involved mostly organs taken from dead Jews including ironically enough from dead Israeli soldiers.

    “Illicit Body-Part Sales Present Widespread Problem”
    By Rebecca Dube

    “When an article in a Swedish newspaper asserted that Israeli soldiers were snatching and killing Palestinian men to harvest their organs for transplant, Israelis reacted with outrage.

    To be certain, the most incendiary claims in the story, which was published August 17 in Sweden’s largest daily newspaper, the left-leaning Aftonbladet, are clearly false. There is no evidence that Israeli soldiers are killing Palestinians for their organs, and there is no evidence linking those organ-stealing allegations, as the article’s author did, to the July arrest of a suspected black-market kidney broker in New Jersey, Levy Izhak Rosenbaum….”

    http://forward.com/articles/112915/

    All of this is a far cry from the antisemitic and gruesome claim that the IDF “deliberately kills Palestinians” in order to “harvest their organs.”

    • Gil Says:

      Jacob, I read ‘Owlminerva’s’ comment and my jaw dropped. Her argument is not just intellectual dishonesty, it is antizionist intellectual dishonesty.
      You response to her was brilliant but I wonder whether the effort of answering every judeophobic (see Klaus Fischer) comment is worth the effort anymore.

      I was probably wrong when I commented some time back that Owlminerva wasn’t antisemitic. There can be no reasoning with such intellectual dishonesty.

  7. Brian Goldfarb Says:

    And, Sandra/owlminerva, how about answering all the comments levelled at your earlier interventions, which you blithely ignore? You make statements and assertions, are challenged to substantiate them with empirical evidence (and hearsay is _not_ evidence, it may surprise you to learn, it’s just what it says, hearsay), and merely repeat your assertions. In the end, you go away without ever moving beyond your original, and inaccurate, statement.

    You have yet to respond to my history lesson, repeated earlier this month, or to my pointing out that you plainly know nothing about socialism, despite essentailly asserting that you are some sort of expert on the subject. You also ignore direct refutations of your position, often treatting these in a way that shows that you just don’t understand what is being said.

    What it comes down to is: put up or shut up. You will win no brownie points here for your nonsense, whatever kudos your equally incapable comrades may award you.

    If you want that put slightly differently: present evidence or expect to be treated as an idiot. And answer the comments and questions addressed directly to you. At present, the way you present yourself would fail to allow you to graduate from High School, let alone get through Freshman year.

    • sandra Says:

      Brian, I can’t respond to the enormous amount of pure personal insults that you people throw at me and anybody else that disagrees with you. I don’t have the time for that. Last time I was here i responded plenty and you people kept repeating the same garbage and insults. You call me intellectual dishonest. But I am not the one that argues with purely insults. Your tactics are the always the same, you call somebody anti-Semite, you call them stupid, you brag about your education and complain about the lack of eduction of your opponent (by the way I explicitely said I am not an expert on socialism, I simply know enough that socialist are supposed to be on the side of the oppressed, not the oppressors like you are), you call your opponents dishonest, liars etc. All because they happen to look at this conflict and the so-called anti-Semitism a little bit different.
      I came here because i wanted to rub your blind noses into the fact that you are the ones with the racist view, dismissing eye witness reports of Palestinians simply because they are Palestinians, and refusing to demand from your government that they look into a situation that people have been complaining because the people doing the complaining are Arabs. Once again you are more concerned with your reputation than with dealing with criminal behavior and the victims of that criminal behavior. You probably don’t realize that this makes you look worse than anything in the world.
      You people don’t argue. You insult, demean and call people anti-Semites and ‘intellectual dishonest’ (oh the irony).

      • Brian Goldfarb Says:

        I’m trying to decide whether your method of posting comments here is because you’re dense or whether its a deliberate tactic to antagonise us. I’m increasing coming down on the side of density. No-one could ignore so many demands for evidence to back up their assertions, and merely repeat their assertions as a deliberate tactic.

        Back in March (reposted more recently), I commented very critically on your claim that Jews had stolen the land from the Palestinians. I pointed out, with substantial evidence, that the land had not been empty of Jews over the last 3000 years. You ignored that comment completely – perhaps because it _did_ contain empirical evidence you were unable to refute.

        More recently, I called you on your claim that so-called socialists here were ignoring those who were really suffering by citing a long list of the truly suffering in the world. Again, you ignored the substantive aspect of that posting and merely returned to your name-calling.

        After a number of people (including me) had stated categorically that we were _not_ accusing you of antisemitism, you accused us of calling you an antisemite by not accusing you of antisemitism.

        All this demonstrates your inability to read plain English. And you continue to do so above, and also demonstrate this through your inability to construct a proper argument.

        Am I insulting you? Yes, because I’m insulted by your attitude towards us (and me in particular). I don’t give a damn about your attitude to my education, especially when you display a contempt for it and all learning. And it isn’t evidence when you repeat that so many people making assertions can’t be wrong. Oh yes they can, especially when they _admit_ they have no evidence for their claims.

        As for “I came here because i wanted to rub your blind noses into the fact that you are the ones with the racist view, dismissing eye witness reports of Palestinians simply because they are Palestinians, and refusing to demand from your government that they look into a situation that people have been complaining because the people doing the complaining are Arabs,” well, what is my government? You are assuming that it is the Israeli Government. Actually, I am resident in and a citizen of the United Kingdom. You have made the _antisemitic_ conflation of Israeli and Jew. For that alone you should offer a grovelling apology, but I bet you won’t. You’ll just winge and whine that I’ve insulted you, when it’s plainly the other way round.

        As I state elsewhere, your are doing what clinical psychologists call “projecting” – and it’s a clinical syndrome.

        If you are so convinced that the Israelis are guilty of this organ theft, where is your evidence? I am not making any racist argument at all, and I will take not that sort of statement from anyone, least of all someone who can’t produce evidence to substantiate their allegations of the racism of others.

        And where have I called you “intellectual dishonest”?

        Prove it or apologise.

  8. owlminerva Says:

    There is absolutely nothing anti-Semitic in suggesting that if a lot of reports on obviously criminal acts are being reported they should be investigated. You have to have a deeply distorted way of viewing the world to even suggest such a thing. And actually it is your worldview that is deeply racist in as it assumes that non-jews cannot possibly speak the truth when they are reporting atrocities happening to them. It is your world view that distinguishes credibility of people depending upon their ethnicity. Besides the fact that such reports should taken serious regardless whether they come from Jews or non-Jews, it is also the wisest way to finally bring an end to them. Either by putting an end to such practices or by showing the ‘rumor mills’ that there is nothing going on. Did you even read the article of Weir? Israel has an obvious problem with illegal organ sales. Plenty of investigations by journalists (they granted can’t do as much as a team of experts can do, which is why the swedish journalist is demanding exactly that) have shown some sort of nexus over the years of organ sales in brazil, South-Africa and Israel. France even refuses to cooperate with Israel when it comes to organ transplants because israel doesn’t seem to be willing to cooperate wen it comes to fighting illegal organ sales. By not doing anything about it and screaming blood libel to anybody who brings it up, you simply reinforce those old stereotypes that you are fighting. Maybe you are not realizing this, but hearts disspearing from people they shouldn’t be dissapearing from is a very serious thing that works like nothing else on people’s imagination. The arrest of that organ peddling Rabbi in NJ was the first ever in the US. It is not a common thing, Jacob.
    I find it atrocious that once again you are more concerned with your reputation than with the actual crimes that are being reported and should obviously be investigated. And then you wonder why Israel has such a bad reputation in the world. And for all your screaming in self-righteous indignation that the whole world is anti-Semetic, your absurd logic proves once again that ultimately it is you that has the racist world view. Coming to this site is like coming to a parallel universe. The people closest to me are all Jewish, and they have never experienced an incident of anti-Semitism in their life. Yet coming here you would think nothing has changed since 1940. You twist everything in such a way it makes the critics of atrocious crimes against humanity look like the criminals and the criminals the victim of racist accussations. I imagine when such practices go on long enough you ultimately end up with a society of criminals, as they get a free pass for whatever it is they are doing. Here in the US, with those arrests of the rabbis, the Jewish community was screaming that the FBI was racist! I don’t know if you have any idea how absurd this looks to anybody that doesn’t share your distorted world view.

    • Richard Gold Says:

      “And for all your screaming in self-righteous indignation that the whole world is anti-Semetic”

      Can you please give me some examples to back up this comment ?

      • sandra Says:

        richard you are kidding right? This whole site feeds upon self-righteous indignation?

        • Richard Gold Says:

          No Sandra , i’m being deadly serious. I’ll ask you again , can you please give me some examples to back the following comment you made ?
          “And for all your screaming in self-righteous indignation that the whole world is anti-Semetic”

          Just one quote please.

  9. PetraMB Says:

    owlminerva, well, I have visited your blog, and read your ruminations on how antisemitism doesn’t really exist, but is only due to the insistence on Jewish identity… It’s really logical: once the Jews stop wanting to regard themselves as Jews, there will be no more Jew-hatred, since the target of the hate doesn’t exist anymore…

    Now, you ask why Israel is willing to investigate the Swedish allegations — for which you believe there are numerous reliable witnesses — ehm, such as Iranian soap operas and Turkish films??? Funny that the author of the Swedish article didn’t find any witnesses; indeed, the family of the guy on whom he focused denied ever having claimed that his organs were stolen…
    Anyway, Israel’s ambassador to Sweden answered your question:

    “Why don’t we investigate why the Mossad and the Jews were behind the bombing of the twin towers?” … “Why won’t we investigate why Jews are spreading AIDS in the Arab countries? Why won’t we investigate why Jews killed Christian children and took their blood and organs to bake matzot on Pessah?”

  10. PetraMB Says:

    CORRECTION: why Israel ISN’T willing to investigate

  11. Jacob-Alain Says:

    “owlminerva, well, I have visited your blog, and read your ruminations on how antisemitism doesn’t really exist, but is only due to the insistence on Jewish identity… It’s really logical: once the Jews stop wanting to regard themselves as Jews, there will be no more Jew-hatred, since the target of the hate doesn’t exist anymore… ”

    Not necessarily, Petra, there are societies in which antisemitism persisted and persists even after all Jews were either expelled of killed. This was true of Spain in the 15th century and it is still true today in a number of East European countries.

    This is also the Bolshevik position. Let the Jews stop being Jews and there will be no more antisemitism, however, as in Spain formerly there was still a lot of antisemitism directed at these “former Jews.” The gulags were full of Jews who stopped being Jewish.

    In any case, owl’s position is essentially and antisemitic one which puts the blame of antisemitism not on the haters but on the hated populace.

  12. Brian Goldfarb Says:

    “The people closest to me are all Jewish, and they have never experienced an incident of anti-Semitism in their life.”

    Who _is_ this woman? “My best friends are all Jewish, therefore I’m not an antisemite.” Mmm, so if I have a friend who is a Moslem, I can’t possibly be Islamophobic? Owlminerva, you have to get out more often. At the very least, you need to read the CST annual reports, detailing antisemitic incidents in the UK. There are reports from numerous other European countries showing the same pattern of incidents. Of course, this doesn’t mean that _all_ Jews will experience direct and clear antisemitism, especially if they don’t dress like ultra-orthodox Jews, don’t wear head coverings, etc, and especially if they live in upper middle class environments with upper middle class incomes.

    Nevertheless, they may well have been refused a job or some other desirable good because they were Jewish, but they never recognised the event as antisemitic: why should they?

    It gets worse (or rather, starts worse, as this comes from the beginning of owl’s latest posting):
    “And actually it is your worldview that is deeply racist in as it assumes that non-jews cannot possibly speak the truth when they are reporting atrocities happening to them. It is your world view that distinguishes credibility of people depending upon their ethnicity.” Actually, owl, you’re doing exactly what you claim people here are doing, with your claim that as all those nearest to you are Jewish, you can judge us on the basis of _their_ experience. This is called projection, and is well known to clinical psychologists as a symptom of irrational behaviour.

    Should you bother to read carefully what others write here, you would note that little if any of what you accuse us of doing is actually done by us. It is however just what you do, and just what you _want_ us to be doing, whatever our actual behaviour (see projection above).

    Let me say it again: stop reading what you hope to see (to make your case) and start reading what is actually here. I suspect you’re incapable of doing that, as you would have to accept that you are plain wrong about so much, and that would be unacceptable to you. Nevertheless, you should at least stop constantly restating your unsupported by any evidence assertions, and start citing real evidence.

    If you don’t (and why should you: you write like a failed high school student, spelling mistakes and all), expect to be roundly condemned and corrected, as you are now. Just having your own website gives no you rights to ignore the usual rules of evidence: it just gives you a platform to strut in front of other equally unwilling to think idiots.

  13. sandra Says:

    to Peta: I don’t know which blog you visited but it wasn’t mine. I never claimed that anti-Semitism doesn’t exist. However what I do claim is that a lot of anger at Israel’s atrocities is being falsely interpreted as anti-Semitism and allows Israel to get very conveniently of the hook. With regard to the Swedish investigations, you are simply showing your ignorance if you believe that it’s only turkish soaps (or whatever) that have the ‘reports’. Read a little bit outside of your usual propaganda sites. There are plenty of reports of palestinians reporting their death family coming back without some organs.
    With regard to jews killing children. Well they are killing children. I don’t know if you noticed that massacre in the beginning of the year? Except you don’t call them children but terrorists, casualties etc…
    You and your anti-semetical hysteria is blind to what is going on. If the whole world was like this criminals would never get caught for they wouldn’t be criminals but poor victims of anti-semitism. Did you even read the Weir article or are you to afraid there might something to it and you can’t scream about matzot anymore?

    • Jacob-Alain Says:

      sandra Says:
      “However what I do claim is that a lot of anger at Israel’s atrocities is being falsely interpreted as anti-Semitism and allows Israel to get very conveniently of the hook.”

      Really, which atrocities are those? The ones being claimed by blood libel allegations against Jewish doctors in Israel for “harvesting body parts?” Or is it the allegation of the non existent “massacre in Jenin” which never took place.

      “With regard to the Swedish investigations, you are simply showing your ignorance if you believe that it’s only turkish soaps (or whatever) that have the ‘reports’. Read a little bit outside of your usual propaganda sites. There are plenty of reports of palestinians reporting their death family coming back without some organs.”

      Who presented this reports, Sandra? How were they confirmed and by whom? You have been reading too many antisemitic websites.

      “With regard to jews killing children. Well they are killing children. I don’t know if you noticed that massacre in the beginning of the year? Except you don’t call them children but terrorists, casualties etc…”

      Which “children” were killed at the “beginning of what year? Like most antisemites you make a lot of charges but offer no evidence, not even any data about the charges you make.

      “You and your anti-semetical hysteria is blind to what is going on.”

      I have noticed that many antisemites prefer spelling it “anti-semetical” why is that?

      As “anti-semetical hysteria” it’s all on the side of Jew haters who make up wild charges without offering any proof.

      “If the whole world was like this criminals would never get caught for they wouldn’t be criminals but poor victims of anti-semitism.”

      This sentence is incoherent. It’s not even grammatical. Calm down, Sandra.

      “Did you even read the Weir article or are you to afraid there might something to it and you can’t scream about matzot anymore?”

      I read the Alison Weir hysterical screed (it’s not an article and it wasn’t’ printed in a legitimate newspaper. It’s appearing in antisemitic websites like counterpunch. This isn’t the first time Weir has written lies about Israel:

      “Weir delivers bias, bigotry in anti-Israel talk”
      http://www.chron.org/tools/viewart.php?artid=225

      She is a professional anti-Zionist.

      Any way, Weir’s article offers no proof about the Swedish claim she merely piles on diverse accusations most of which are not relevant to the Swedish blood libel charges.

  14. sandra Says:

    Brian(supposedly quoting me): “My best friends are all Jewish; therefore I’m not an anti-Semite”.

    Actually I never said that. Please reread what I said. For being such a snob insulting my intelligence on a constant basis you are not very smart yourself. In fact I don’t find that there much debate going on here with opponents, most of what you have to say can insults such as “You are stupid”, “you are dishonest”, and let’s not forget “you are an anti-Semite”.
    I said that people around me are Jewish and that they tell me that they live anti-Semite free lives. I didn’t try to conclude from that that I am not an anti-Semite. I am aware that there is no defense possible against the accusation of anti-Semitism as anybody that focuses on the crimes of Israel is automatically a racist. The only defense would be a blind, absurd loyalty to the state of Israel. And reason prevents me from such a loyalty against any state. This site feeds on something that is beyond reason so there is no reasonable defense against it. It is ironic how such a single issue campaign that looks at everything through the lens of anti-Semitism becomes like its enemy. Like there is no real, rational defense against somebody that has decided to hate you for what you are, there is no real defense against somebody that has decided that you are an anti-Semite. Regardless whether or not you are Jewish yourself, are married to a Jew, or even give your life for a Jew, you WILL BE considered an anti-Semite for being angry with Israel for the way they treat Arabs. It is beyond reason.

    Anyway.

    Brian: “Actually, owl, you’re doing exactly what you claim people here are doing, with your claim that as all those nearest to you are Jewish, you can judge us on the basis of _their_ experience.”

    Actually, Brian, I am not doing the same thing at all. I take what those nearest to me tell me very serious. I don’t dismiss anything they report to me. If they would report to me that they are being discriminated against based upon their ethnicity, or they have to deal with terror and laws that keeps them separated from others because of their religion, I would take that very serious. We all take such complaints serious in the US. It’s one of the reasons I came here. English is not my native language. Well I demand the same attitude from you and your government in connection to criminal activities that Palestinians keep reporting. Since it is Israel that keeps these people occupied they are Israel’s responsibility. I can’t think of any other reason for their reports being so cruelly dismissed than some underlying racist assumption that they are all liars. I understand that with such a terrible history you have become completely paranoid. But still it is no excuse for believing that there is no value in what somebody else is telling you. They are people. And you should know how terrible it is not to be believed.

    With regard to the bunch of you, my belief that you interpret valid criticism as anti-Semitism is based upon the enormous amount of instances in which very legitimate criticism of apartheid, racism, occupation, massacres conducted by the IDF etc is being interpreted as anti-Semitism. Whenever somebody points out that Israel in effect practices apartheid and a boycott might put pressure to get rid of racist laws, he gets branded as an anti-Semite. (or idiot or liar, take your pick). I have seen it happen over and over again with American academics, politicians etc. A Swedish journalist writes something about organ trade and instead of worrying about such things happening you all scream about old Jewish stereotypes.

    If there are real anti-Semitic incidents happening where you live, then those should be addressed, investigated and the criminals should be prosecuted. However, that is very different though from arguing that anybody that has a different political view of the situation in the middle east is an anti-Semite. The article on this site I responded to interprets the Swedish article as a renewal of the blood libel. The writing of Arieh Kovler on this site assumes the same (two incidents of screaming that the world, in this case Sweden, is anti-Semitic , is that enough for you Brian????). I responded that there seems to be evidence that the journalist is on to something. Weir collected a bunch of reports that seem to beg for looking into this situation. So is the Swedish journalist an anti-Semite? I don’t know. I think we should look into it before we make such conclusions. We should take eye witness reports of Palestinians serious.
    If there would be reports of Jews in England speaking of organ theft by the British government, wouldn’t you expect those to be taken serious as well? And if the police in England would dismiss them, wouldn’t you hope there would be an international community that supports you in your struggle and organizes a boycott to pressure the British government into behaving nicely? I have a feeling you would be the first to organize that boycott (and rightly so).

    Anyway, so far there hasn’t been one decent respond to the Weir article that itself is a response to the blood libel accusations. All the bunch of you knows how to do is insult. And I end up having either to defend myself rather than my arguments or otherwise let all the vile insinuations and outright accusations with regard to my character and intellect slide by. That is the choice you people give me.

    And then you call me the high school student.

    Once again, is there anybody that bothers to respond to the Weir article?

  15. Karl Pfeifer Says:

    @sandra@ your allegations are founded on insufficient and flawed information, semantic confusion and the misuse of moral principles.
    Your statements are not based on reliable, full, thorough and accurate an account of the relevant facts. Why do you make judgement before an investigation of the political background and an inquiry into the military’s professional performance?
    You make statements on the Israeli operation as if this kind of examination had already been completed and its findings were at your disposal.
    Interesting the article you mentioned is published by the swedish-russian antisemite Adam Ermash, who was before Jöran Jermas and who is signing his vile stuff as Israel Shamir.

  16. Susan Says:

    Owl Minerva, the most assimilated Jews lived in per WWII Germany and Austria. Thereby proving that assimilation does not end antisemitism. I have read that German Jews had an unrequited love for all things German.

    Just because there are “reports” does not make them true. The Swedish editor admitted that the “reports” in his newspaper were not backed up by evidence.

  17. zkharya Says:

    ‘just to iterate, the prize witness to Israeli organ stealing, the alleged incident of Bilal Muhammed’s missing heart, took place in 1992…

    His body was processed at Abu Kabir, the ONLY forensic centre in Israel. Newsflash: forensic examinations often remove organs, but they are rarely, if ever, useful for transplanting.

    He was apparently shot in the chest and stomach, not the most conducive targets for a prospective heart seeker. The narrative of events is entirely concocted by Bostrom, no witnesses or sources.

  18. zkharya Says:

    ‘sorry, Bilal GHANAN.

  19. Richard Gold Says:

    Sandra.

    Maybe you’ve missed it the second time but i asked you with regard to your comment :

    “And for all your screaming in self-righteous indignation that the whole world is anti-Semetic”

    Can you please give me some examples to back up this comment ? Just quote please Sandra.

  20. Jacob-Alain Says:

    It’s a waste of time to continue to argue with Sandra.

    Sandra’s latest long screed reiterates the charges she already made and which were answered. She also doesn’t address directly any of the questions comments about her posts.

  21. sandra Says:

    to Karl: What your write is pure nonsense.
    First of all I am not making ‘allegations’ and I do not write as if an investigation took place already. Stop with the manipulations already. The journalist has reported something that is serious and he himself asked for an investigation. Second of all, there is a history of problems with regard to Israel and organ transplants. Please, again, read the article of Weir. She has a very nice summary. Thirdly, one of the problems, as I understand it, is that while hospitals usually cooperate on an international scale in order to prevent illegal organ trade, Israel is not participating in such cooperation. It sort of makes sense that if illegal organ sale takes place it will happen in places that don’t regulate it. Fourth, you don’t have to have irrefutable proof in order to start a investigation. That is an absurd demand. This is why we have a police force. They are supposed to look for proof or the lack of proof.
    What I am saying however, is that when there are so many people reporting a crime, then somebody should look into it. What is so difficult to understand? Why all this resistance? Not only is that the most moral course of action as it takes people serious but it also makes the most common sense. If everybody is lying and deceiving you in order to incriminate the Jews out of pure malice than a serious investigation will reveal it. That simple.
    So, considering all of the above, I call the reaction of the writers of the articles that this site has put up with regard to the blood libel accusation (and in extension the site itself) hysterical, immoral, racist (for you assume that the Palestinians cannot speak the truth about what they experience) and frankly stupid. The more reports that are coming out on this the more stupid and selfish your hysteria and resistance to investigations will appear. Just this morning I read about the Israeli traffickers in human eggs that were arrested in Rumania (http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=101871&sectionid=351020606). And just in June we had the human trafficking rabbi that had set up a little illegal organ trade ring here in NJ and that is connected to Israel. What the hell are people supposed to make of this? Maybe to you it is nothing, but to most people the idea that rich people exploit the poverty of people in order to take their organs is deeply repulsive. If lack of regulation in Israel is making such illegal traffic rings possible then Israel will have to change its laws. Brazil and South Africa had to do it, why shouldn’t we expect the same from Israel?

    to :zkharya
    Where in the world did you read that I belief all Jews should assimilate in order to prevent anti-Semitism? You are making this totally up. You can’t make something up and then attack a person based upon that. If you are referring to my little blog (because I can’t think what else you could be referring to), I wrote about different attitudes towards this conflict. One of the attitudes that I described involves a reexamination of Jewish identity, not to get rid of Jewish identity, but to rethink it in such a way that it allows you to get along with others. I do not believe at all we should all become the same as to avoid hatred. I believe richness lies in diversity plus tolerance. With regards to the article of Bostrom. He has ‘invented’ nothing. There are witnesses that are showing up that are willing to cooperate in a possible investigation. You are the one that is making things up. And I don’t know what is possible and not possible with regard to heart surgery. I prefer to hear it from experts.
    I don’t understand such resistance to the extent that you would not even consider an investigation. What are you so afraid of? What do you have to lose if you believe it to be all lies? What in the world is at stake here to the extent you won’t even read the Weir article?

    To Richard:
    I have said over and over again that the way Jewish sites have responded to the Swedish article is a ‘screaming in self-righteous indignation that the world is anti-Semitic’; the world in this case being the whole country of Sweden that apparently now has become the target of an Israeli boycott based solely upon this one article and the Swedish government who is refusing to bend over to the whims of Lieberman. By the way I have to try very hard here not to get into a little exploration of the hypocrisy of organizing a boycott against Sweden (and Gaza) while at the same time claiming the anti-Semitic nature of the BDS campaign against Israel.
    And by the way this is your response? Asking me the same question 300 times that I already answered in nearly every comment I posted and with which I opened my commentary? Something that is completely obvious?
    So Richard. Please answer my question now: what do you think of the article of Weir? Have you read it? What are your reflections? Do you (still) think the accusations are completely fabricated and are a revival of the blood libel?

    • Jacob-Alain Says:

      sandra Says: “to Karl: What your write is pure nonsense.”

      Karl is one of the most thoughtful posters anywhere. You would do well to learn from him if you are capable of learning.

      “First of all I am not making ‘allegations’ and I do not write as if an investigation took place already. Stop with the manipulations already. The journalist has reported something that is serious and he himself asked for an investigation.”

      You were making as well as supporting allegations, stop lying.

      Here is one gruesome and false allegation you made without proof:

      “With regard to jews killing children. Well they are killing children. I don’t know if you noticed that massacre in the beginning of the year? Except you don’t call them children but terrorists, casualties etc…” Sandra

      Here is another allegation you supported:

      ““With regard to the Swedish investigations, you are simply showing your ignorance if you believe that it’s only turkish soaps (or whatever) that have the ‘reports’. Read a little bit outside of your usual propaganda sites. There are plenty of reports of palestinians reporting their death family coming back without some organs.” Sandra

      Again:

      “Did you even read the Weir article or are you to afraid there might something to it and you can’t scream about matzot anymore?” Sandra

      To which I responded:

      ‘I read the Alison Weir hysterical screed (it’s not an article and it wasn’t’ printed in a legitimate newspaper. It’s appearing in antisemitic websites like counterpunch. This isn’t the first time Weir has written lies about Israel:

      “Weir delivers bias, bigotry in anti-Israel talk”

      http://www.chron.org/tools/viewart.php?artid=225

      She is a professional anti-Zionist.” Jacob-Alain

      Now you have repeated Weir’s lies again without answering objections made about her views.

      “Second of all, there is a history of problems with regard to Israel and organ transplants. Please, again, read the article of Weir. She has a very nice summary.”

      Karl is surely right about you and you should stop being such a cowardly liar and own up to what you say in your previous posts and back them up with proof.

      There is no truth and no merit to anything you say.

  22. Richard Gold Says:

    Sandra. You said “And for all your screaming in self-righteous indignation that the whole world is anti-Semetic”

    And i asked you for examples.

    And now you say ” I have said over and over again that the way Jewish sites have responded to the Swedish article is a ‘screaming in self-righteous indignation that the world is anti-Semitic’; the world in this case being the whole country of Sweden”

    You made me laugh Sandra , brilliant , thanks.

  23. Richard Gold Says:

    Ok people. I’ve just deleted Sandra’s latest comment. I can’t be bothered with her comments anymore, or the fact that in her latest comment she’s insulting me.Sandra’s beyond the Pale. Enough.

  24. PetraMB Says:

    Jacob-Alain: I didn’t mean it all that seriously what I wrote to owl about antisemitism… She denies that it’s her blog, but at least, it’s something about owlminerva and has the same picture as she uses here… well, anyway, I think it’s by now more than clear that there is no point to any debate with her.

  25. Jacob-Alain Says:

    For the record: people who think that the recent blood libel in Sweden about Israel harvesting Palestinian body part has any merit should read the following:

    “Relative of organ donor to Palestinian child berates Swedish tabloid story

    Sep. 1, 2009
    JONNY PAUL, Jerusalem Post correspondent , THE JERUSALEM POST
    The cousin of a 2002 terror casualty whose kidney was donated to a young Palestinian girl has reacted angrily to the Swedish tabloid story that IDF soldiers were killing Palestinians to harvest their organs, accusing the journalist of “first rate anti-Semitism,” of which “the Third Reich would be proud.”

    Yoni Jesner, a 19-year-old student youth leader from Glasgow, Scotland, was killed in a suicide bomb attack on a No. 4 bus in Tel Aviv in September 2002. He was studying at a yeshiva at the time and planned to return to the UK to study medicine.

    His cousin, Gideon Black, 26, of London, who is currently residing in Jerusalem, was with Yoni and survived the terrorist attack, sustaining injuries.

    Yoni died in Ichilov Hospital the day after the bombing from shrapnel wounds to the head. His family agreed to donate one of Yoni’s kidneys, which went to seven-year old Palestinian Yasmin Abu Ramila from east Jerusalem, who had waited two years for a suitable organ.

    Speaking at the time, Yoni’s brother Ari said: “The family is very proud that out of this tragic situation and Yoni’s death that we were able and Yoni was able to give life to others. I think the most important principle here is that life was given to another human being.”

    “What religion, nationality, race, culture or creed is not what is important here,” he added.

    At the time, the girl’s mother, Dina Abu Ramila, said: “I don’t know how to thank the family of the victim of the attack. I feel for their pain and thank them for the organ donation that saved my daughter’s life.”

    Responding to the controversial article in the Swedish tabloid Aftonbladet in which journalist Donald Bostrom claimed that soldiers were killing Palestinians to sell their organs, Black told The Jerusalem Post the claims were “as abhorrent as they are inaccurate.”

    “When faced with such bombastic baseless criticism of Israel, one can… treat Mr. Bostrom and his cohorts generously, simply treating their research as shoddy and amateurish at best, and seeing their claims as an attention-grabbing attempt to leap forth from Stockholm’s journalistic backwaters,” Black said.

    “Alternatively, one can take Bostrom’s remarks at face value. A journalist’s integrity is rooted in his ability to support his claims. If extensive empirical evidence must be brought before making remarks that cast a shadow over an individual’s reputation, then any journalist must be sure to be on solid ground before claiming that foreign soldiers have mutilated human bodies.

    “[Lack] of such evidence leaves Bostrom guilty of first rate anti-Semitism, the type of which the Third Reich would be proud.” ……”

    Read the rest here:

    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1251145167369&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter

  26. Jacob-Alain Says:

    PetraMB, are Sandra and “owl” the same person?

    • Brian Goldfarb Says:

      Not PetraMB, but the answer is still yes, one and the same. Trying the old sleight-of-hand to fool us that there’s more than one of her, though one is more than enough.

  27. Robert Sutcliffe Says:

    Israel Admits Organ Theft
    http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/12/2009122161551898444.html

    [MV unlinked -http://pathofmostresistance.org/israel-admits-organ-theft – a dodgy blog which can’t stick to the point of Palestinian emancipation but goes tailspinning off into organ scandals as if that had anything to do with it.]


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