Caroline Lucas, democracy, and singling out Israel

July 8, 2010 — Mira Vogel

On Greens Engage.

See also active Green Isca Stieglitz’s blog post and comments at the JC.

Posted in Gaza, law, The Left. Tags: , . 8 Comments »

8 Responses to “Caroline Lucas, democracy, and singling out Israel”

  1. luny Says:
    July 9, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    If the choice of EDO was “irrational and random”, why the strong comments of the Israeli ambassador? Why the hysterical reaction at greens-engage?
    Aren’t you happy that a factory supplying weapons to human rights violators was, if only temporarily, disabled?

    Since you are fighting against BDS, isnt such an action infinitely better since it targets the Israeli military, rather than academics or cultural performers?

    Oh, yeah, this is “were not apologists for Israel, we just fight antisemitism, honest!” Engage. People destroying weapons intended to kill civilians are actually nazis in disguise, one of them was overheard saying Heil Hitler somewhere.

    PS: The damage was not criminal, as a court of law found it was made to prevent a greater crime. Hopefully, youll get used to it, as this is not the last such case.

    Reply
    • Mira Vogel Says:
      July 9, 2010 at 3:06 pm

      Luny, one way you are wrong is that there’s no evidence the company supplies to Israel (I presume that’s what you mean by ‘human rights violators’, rather than this country), and yet Gaza was used as the pretext to smash it – and that baseless yet strongly held belief was enough for this court to exonerate these people. Stop a minute and think about what that means, and what it means that you didn’t know and don’t even care. It’s just more defamation from you, Luny. You hate Israel, in a very simple and overriding way without any sense of responsibility. Leave us alone.

      Reply
  2. Brian Says:
    July 9, 2010 at 3:54 pm

    Mira,
    I’m glad you emphasized the lack of evidence that the company even supplies Israel. To me, this is the single most astonishing aspect of this judgement: that the smashers are licensed to vandalize purely because they dislike Israel.

    Reply
    • Brian Goldfarb Says:
      July 11, 2010 at 7:46 pm

      Brian, may I ask you a favour? Please add another letter (other than G) to your sign-in, to distinguish yourself from me. Given that you are calmer than me in your postings, this can only be to your advantage!

      Reply
  3. Absolute Observer Says:
    July 9, 2010 at 4:58 pm

    A hardly surprising note, but the only “hysterical reaction” to this story is that provided by Luny…….The reference to “nazis” and “sieg heil” as well as the general tone of the comment and the abuse at Engage,

    It would not surprise me if he or she actually does believe that Engage calls everyone who is not a blind follower of any action that parades itself as anti-zionst a “nazi” and that the end is nigh for Israel and its “supporters”. After all, the deranged often create a paranoid universe for themselves that they then mistake for reality.

    People who are consumed with “rigteous anger” and “unbounded hatred” like Luny often project their own warped emotions and desires onto those they perceive as the central cause of their derangement. They are ideal when subsumed in a mob, but as Mira has indicated and as luny’s post indicates, stupid when left to their own articulations.

    Anyway, good to know that Engage has such an effect on him or her. Kinda irnic really.

    Reply
  4. Absolute Observer Says:
    July 9, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    Gosh, how very brave of these activists to go into Court of a country that is fighting one, maybe two, illegal wars and then point the finger at Israel as a justification for their actions.
    They really did put themselves on the line!

    Reply
  5. Isca Stieglitz Says:
    July 16, 2010 at 10:54 pm

    Imaginary scenario –
    I write letters to the Green Party of England & Wales’ Executive-because of their interest; I write letters to my MP etc. about the activities of say ‘Friends of Palestine’ or ‘Stop the War’ and say –
    I ‘believe’ that they have links to unsavoury groups and provide funds which are, down the chain, syphoned of for Hamas military and terrorist activity; killing dissenters/ ‘collaborators’ and civilians (inc. women & children), within Gaza and sending ‘x’ thousand mini-missiles at southern Israeli towns, killing civilians (inc. women & children).
    I am ignored.
    I lobby every person/ group I can.
    I am ignored.
    I demonstrate outside said offices and buildings.
    I am ignored.
    I attempt to take them to court.
    I am ignored and told that these organisations do not have links to groups which are directly responsible for ‘crimes against humanity’, within or without Gaza –
    I have in my mind ‘exhausted all avenues’! Not sure if ‘Smash EDO’ did any of this, but we are told ‘all avenues were exhausted’.
    So, I decide to take direct action. I have now called my group – ‘Smash FoP & STW At the Same Time’. I break into the head offices of ‘Friends of Palestine’ and ‘Stop the War’ and trash the place, especially the computers and the safes where money is kept. I cause £187, 000 worth of damage.
    My defence? Well, I exhausted all channels and I know for sure that the funds coming out of this office go directly or indirectly to funding terrorist activity and hence crimes against humanity.
    FoP and STW deny this. My MP supports me. How would I be treated by a judge & jury?
    The same as the ‘Smash EDO’?

    Naaah, of course not and neither should I be…neither should they have been treated in this way.

    It does not resemble any Judge’s guidance or jury decision within the legal framework that I learned about in law.
    My case sounds even more ridiculous when I read it back to myself!

    Reply
  6. arabmuslimm Says:
    October 31, 2010 at 11:55 am

    There is no democracy in Israel as a state is illegitimate and illegal and not recognized
    Evidence of this if anyone wanted to write a comment in the Israeli websites
    Does not allow him or be there are many obstacles to prevent him from writing a comment.
    The reasons for Arab-Israeli conflict is the occupation of Palestine in 1948.
    Palestine Arab Islamic state like the rest of the Arab and Islamic states surrounding
    Them. Means that there are Jews and Zionists in Palestine a big mistake, because this entity
    Zionist is not consistent with the surrounding area (such as language, customs, traditions and religion)
    The only solution to end the Arab-Israeli conflict is the expulsion of Jews from Palestine
    All of Palestine. The Jewish people will not rest and will not feel comfortable and stability
    But if it gets out of Palestine and the Middle East completely. If people continue to
    Jews in Palestine and the Middle East, the death and destruction will continue.
    Palestine Arab Islamic state and will remain

    Reply

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