“I would like to teach some of my [Jewish] neighbours some manners…”

July 28, 2010 — David Hirsh

How do you protect yourself from a charge of Islamophobia?

Easy.  Start your op-ed with a few paragraphs of antisemitism.

Here, in the Independent.

via SP.

See Miriam Shaviv on the JC blog for comment.

Posted in Uncategorized. 17 Comments »

17 Responses to ““I would like to teach some of my [Jewish] neighbours some manners…””

  1. Absolute Observer Says:
    July 28, 2010 at 5:57 pm

    Patterson is somewhat typical of the “new” European liberal who will tolerate anything but toleration and who think that anyone who has not thrown off religion as an anachronistic fantasy and who does not have the requisite “good manners” deserves to be shunned.

    As with so many of her kind, she is using serious feminist arguments of gender inequality within religious communities as a means to beat the women in wigs and the women in veils. And, in so doing, assumes that such gender inequalities do not exist within secularised world of gender relations (an implication disproved by the increasing number of “English” women and their children being murdered by their “English” secular husbands).

    As Shaviv notes, the almost seemless link she makes between rude Chasids, velied Muslims and the mutilation of female bodies is truly breathtaking.

    I note, however, that she does not make the link between Christianity and the increased child abuse in parts of Africa and in the UK that takes place under the guise of “exorcism”.

    Needless to say, this form of child abuse is as related to Christianity as female mutilation is to Islam.

    Indeed, it is reminiscent of the racism and antisemitism of so many of the “moderns” who, at the least, flirted with fascism and antisemitism at the middle of the 20th century and who also found Jews “rude”.

    Patterson is precisely the new face of European racism and, as noted, a “Europe” that produces antisemitism cannot but produce Islamophobia and vice-versa.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10271153

    The Independent should be ashamed of itself; but of course it won’t be.

    Reply
  2. Brian Robinson Says:
    July 28, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    I’ve just put this comment on the Miriam Shaviv’s JC blog:

    She had a potentially good article about the horrors of female genital mutilation (FGM) — and its illegality — but the kindest thing I can say about her piece is that she totally vitiated her argument by the sheer vileness of everything else in it. And one might almost get the impression that in her moral universe FGM is rather on a par with driving badly. The Independent began to go downhill quite a while ago — shame, because when it began under Andreas Whittam-Smith it was a good — and had the makings of a great — liberal paper.

    Reply
  3. Lawz Says:
    July 28, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    I agree with Absolute. The price we pay for freedom is that sometimes people we don’t like will practice and say things we don’t like.

    New Liberals don’t understand this concept, and believe their beloved State and its National Curriculum should control everything: basically, freedom on their terms:

    “But we, alas, are living in a country whose government believes that schools should be “free” – free to abandon the national curriculum, free to adopt any damned framework they fancy – and that parents should be free, with no state intervention at all, to teach their children whatever sexist, racist, dangerous, violent and yes, ill-mannered, nonsense that they like.

    Bah, damn that freedom! Curses on democracy, impinging on our left-wing comfort zone!

    Among the New Liberals we have the skeptics and atheists – see the recent comments on the Indy article. They believe all religion is deluded and evil, and that science and scientists are (in sharp contrast) always right, and never act irresponsibly. Their chosen deity is Richard Dawkins.

    Reply
  4. Absolute Observer Says:
    July 28, 2010 at 7:12 pm

    From Patterson’s thread.

    “Good article.
    I worked for some years in Stamford Hill. The article accurately reflects my experience. Early on, I was interested in the “diversity” of the area and fascinated by the presence of the Hasidic jewish people. It did not take long however to experience the arrogance and hostility with which they treat all others. The comments about the driving are spot on as well! I don’t know why – perhaps the complete disregard that they seem to feel for other people rather than any technical weakness?

    Let me be clear also that I am not against Jewish people at all but that I do find a religion based upon the idea that a certain group is “chosen” or “superior” to be utterly vile.
    I could criticise other cultures or religions also ( I am an atheist) – but I dont want to fall into the pattern of having to partner any criticism of Judaism with criticisms of other cultures to avoid charges of anti semitism.
    This is what I feel the author of the piece may have been drawn into.
    In fact there are other more disturbing aspects to this community that could be raised but that I feel are not appropriate here.
    Regardless of any racial or religious issues, it is simply not healthy for a community to live in such a degree of self-imposed isolation within our society.
    Finally, although I am tempted to stop here – go on stop you say :-), I will point out that I am a black man and that when I first started working in that area I actually pulled up an employee for making precisly the sort of observation made in the article.
    Time and experience proved me wrong. ”

    “Of course the Jewish faith induces racism. It’s based on the most racist premise of all. That they are somehow different from the rest of humanity by being god’s chosen people. Aryan/Jew the concept of the special race is much the same. It’s all down to the core idiocy of religions from the Middle Eastern deserts. I despise anti-Semitism because it is a nonsense to blame somebody for an accident of birth; however religion is something “that you do” and I can judge you by you religion without being racist or prejudicial. Islam blames the Jews; the Jews blame themselves and everyone else; Christians blame each other and the Jews. Personally I just blame them all for being stupid enough as grown ups to still have an imaginary friend.”

    This comment
    “We are not the chosen, but rather we chose, God. We accepted his Laws, a joy and a burden. We Jews were chosen by half the world. Two thousand years ago every people, every family had their own religion, their own gods. Jews were (still are, 14 million) a small people, theirs was one out of a thousand religions. Christianism was born out of Judaism. More than one billion people in the world today worship Jew Jesus as their Savior or god and adopted the Jewish history book as their holy book. The Bible, the so called Old and New Testaments (this one also a Jewish book from A to Z). 1,500 years after Judaism and 630 after Jesus an Arab invented a new religion “based” on Judaism and Christianism. All muslim “prophets” are Jewish prophets and kings, like Moses, David, Jesus, etc. Today they are more than a billion, another people that chose the Jews, apart from the Christians. You choose us, choose our holy book and yet deny our right to our land (the land where Jesus was born, lived and died) and (some, not all, thank God) hate us.
    Chosen by 3 billion people ”
    gets these responses,

    “You still mark yourself apart from the rest of the human species. By so doing you’re inherently racist whatever word games you play.”

    “No wonder there’s trouble in Palestine – now we know after your explanation.”

    This one hits the nail on the head,
    “Christina, I am in awe! Was turning over this very topic in my mind this morning, and stumbling over my western liberalism while recoiling in horror at possible outcomes for the future of this country if no-one says or does ANYTHING, and now here you are. I want to hug you for your bravery and empathy.”

    “the future of this country”! What next, my grandad didn’t fight the nazis so that people can be rude and slice up their children!!

    And no thread would be complete without the following,
    “mtaylor100 your abuse of the term anti-semitism to try and attack the credibility of the author for daring to comment on an artificial cultural divide created by a religion of prejudice is pretty much a comment on your own bigotry rather than hers. You’ll bully and abuse anyone with the term to silence critics. Very reminiscent of the treatment of the Jews themselves in the past. Then again Gaza can pretty much be considered a concentration camp now; it’s tragic how the extremist elements of the Jewish community have turned into the very thing that they claim to despise.”

    Also to be noted are those who think that whilst the Jews are not rude, Muslims are simly queing up for genital mutilation. Sigh.

    And, what a surpise, this is what the thread has resulted in………from being rude in a shop to being nazis………

    “A place where people are contained and restricted in what they can and cannot have? Where even their food supply is regulated by another power un-appointed by them? Not a concentration camp? OK how about prison? Where basic building materials for a home are denied because people might be able to escape or bring in supplies in that aren’t approved by those who contain them. Where the people are punished for their democratically elected representatives (who are vile people but elected none-the-less).

    Semantics for the semites. Israel has created a ghetto and the most appropriate name for Gaza should be Aushwitz 2.0. Evil does not justify evil. It’s a shame Israel doesn’t acknowledge that.

    PS I despise Islam/Christianity & Judaism equally as all 3 religions are a cancer on humanity for the suffering and misery they bring. I’m not making apologies for Hamas who are vile people; however that doesn’t mean I have to excuse the excesses and human rights abuses of the Israelis either.

    Gaza is a concentration camp. The Israeli’s have become Kapo’s.”

    Reply
    • Thomas Venner Says:
      July 29, 2010 at 5:44 pm

      I absolutely love the logic of this strand of discussion – a couple of Hasidic Jews are rude to someone, therefore Judaism is an intrinsically racist religion, all Jews are inbred and just as bad as Nazis and this explains why Israel does (:insert hyperbolic war crime reference here:).

      For many of us, dark humour is a wonderful thing, but the appalling spelling and the outpourings of abysmal so-called “poetry” on Stormfront begin to sap the will after a while. This is why the Independent’s comments threads, not to mention the work of insane genius that is the “Socialist Unity” blog, are so vital, as they deftly combine the sensibilities of Stormfront that we find so perversely hilarious with a good working knowledge of spelling and grammar, making the subject matter much easier on the eye.

      Reply
  5. NicoleS Says:
    July 29, 2010 at 8:35 am

    We Jews are so uncouth. And such bad drivers! Next thing you know, we’ll be barging ahead of others in a queue. This is classic English anti-semitism, based on snobbery and xenophobia. It is extraordinary, and depressing, that the Independent editors couldn’t see anything wrong with Patterson’s piece.

    Reply
  6. Lawz Says:
    July 29, 2010 at 10:46 am

    This one is particularly disgusting. Where are the mods?

    “Chris: Here in the North East we have a large jewish population in Gateshead; when I first moved here I was fascinated by these people but like Christina quickly became very annoyed with their very insular attitude. Don’t ever stop one and ask for directions – they look at you as if you’ve been dipped in dog poo. What is rarely discussed (for fear of being deemed ‘racist’) is the fact that they are a very inbred community, with all of the health problems that that implies. By bending over backwards to be ‘pc’ we are in fact not helping these people at all.”

    Reply
  7. Susan Says:
    July 29, 2010 at 11:06 am

    I have actually met a Hasidic Rabbi and other Hasidic people. Their way of life is not for me.They will not touch women who are not their wives, but I have found them to be unfailingly polite to everyone.

    Reply
  9. Bialik Says:
    July 29, 2010 at 11:33 pm

    Dear Ms Patterson,

    I live in South London. People are rude there. They’re rude on the buses, on the streets, in the shops… they barge and they put their feet up on seats and that’s just the bus drivers. I assume that they’re not Jewish from the neighbourhood – no bagels to be had. What picture of the world can I take from this with specific reference to minorities, gender and international relations?

    Yours etc.

    Reply
    • Brian Goldfarb Says:
      July 30, 2010 at 9:57 pm

      Not just in South London, B., North London too (and I don’t mean anywhere near Stamford Hill, either.

      Reply
  10. Bialik Says:
    July 29, 2010 at 11:35 pm

    By the way, how does the writer know that they know she’s a goy? Does she walk down the street eating ham?

    Reply
  11. Mark2 Says:
    July 30, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    “Gaza is a concentration camp. The Israeli’s have become Kapo’s.”

    Sounds like someone in bad need of a lesson both in what a concetration camp was and also what a “kapo” was!

    Reply
    • Thomas Venner Says:
      July 30, 2010 at 4:44 pm

      We should write in complaining about that, in the guise of fellow “anti-Zionists”, and stating that the use of the word “kapo” is inaccurate, seeing as it would denote someone forcibly recruited from the ranks of the prisoners, and that they should really be making sure to use the correct terminology. I’m sure we could actually keep them tied up in petty arguments like this for weeks, so long as we kept up the illusion that we shared their politics so that they would have to pay attention…

      Reply
  12. Lawz Says:
    July 30, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    Yes, many examples of reductio ad hitlerum present in that piece.

    Reply
  13. j.dyer Says:
    July 31, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    Patterson’s article was written in bad faith:

    “When I moved to Stamford Hill, 12 years ago, I didn’t realise that goyim were about as welcome in the Hasidic Jewish shops as Martin Luther King at a Klu Klux Klan convention.”

    Does any one believe her that it took her 12 years to find out that she was hated in that community? I doubt it.

    She is scapegoating the very people among whom she lived.

    Reply
  14. Don’t F***ing Tell Me What To Do. « ModernityBlog Says:
    August 9, 2010 at 6:25 pm

    […] had this gem, and many more informative […]

    Reply

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