BRICUP’s guest Bongani Masuku falls foul of Human Rights Commission

Alana Pugh

The South African Human Rights Commission found that Bongani Masuku’s statements amounted to hate speech.

This post is by Alana Pugh-Jones of the South African Jewish Board of Deputies.

Bongani Masuku, International Relations Secretary of the Congress of South African Trade Unions (COSATU), will be one of the speakers in the upcoming BRICUP seminar series entitled, ‘Israel, the Palestinians and Apartheid: The Case for Sanctions and Boycotts’.

BRICUP, a an organisation of UK based academics set up in response to the Palestinian Call for Academic Boycott and with the mission to ‘support Palestinian universities, staff and students’ and ‘to oppose the continued illegal Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands’, is hosting numerous talks at universities across the UK. Speakers on the line up include amongst others the former South African Minister of Intelligence Ronnie Kasrils and Omar Barghouti of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement.

But it is the inclusion of Bongani Masuku in a public lecture series, run by a self described academically orientated organization, which is cause for concern.

Mr Masuku currently has a case of hate speech being reviewed against him at the South African Human Rights Commission (SAHRC). The SA Jewish Board of Deputies laid a formal complaint with the SAHRC against Masuku in March, on the basis of “numerous inflammatory, threatening and insulting statements” he has made against the South African Jewish community. In a press statement, the Board accused Masuku of using “overtly threatening language” in reference to the mainstream Jewish community because of its support for the State of Israel.

Specifically, Masuku had openly and repeatedly stated that COSATU would target Jewish supporters of Israel and “make their lives hell” and urged that “every Zionist must be made to drink the bitter medicine they are feeding our brothers and sisters in Palestine”. He had explicitly demonised South African Jews who, unlike Ronnie Kasrils and others, had not “risen above the fascist parochial paranoia of Israel”, writing that such people could not be expected to be regarded as human beings by people like himself.

Masuku’s various statements were believed to constitute serious breaches of the Prohibition of Hate Speech as contained in the South African Constitution. Public pronouncements declaring that Jews who support Israel are not welcome in South Africa and should be forced to leave, as well as calling on COSATU’s members to target Jewish businesses and to confront Jews who support Israel wherever they might be even if this means doing something that in his own words, “may necessarily cause what is regarded as harm”, prompted the SA Jewish Board of Deputies to take action.

This week, the HRC released its finding, in which it unequivocally found that Masuku’s statements amounted to hate speech and recommended that the matter would best be resolved through litigation before the Equality Court to seek a public apology from him. Whatever the findings may be, inviting someone who openly and consistently promotes threatening action towards a community instead of employing factually based arguments to forward their cause, is a dangerous move which not only serves to undermine whatever merits may exist in the event but will only provide a platform for furthering hatred and tension around the Israel and Palestine debate.

Alana Pugh-Jones
Johannesburg, South Africa

Mira adds:

University and College Union boycotters and BRICUP members, including Mike Cushman, Hilary Rose, Steven Rose, John Chalcraft and Jonathan Rosenhead have ushered anti-Jewish racism into their movement. Their organisation’s uncritical hosting of Bongani Masuku shows that, for them, hatred of Israel is an acceptable substitute for powers of analysis. This is why BRICUP cannot be effective on behalf of Palestinians and why it’s reasonable to speculate that BRICUP’s main concern isn’t Palestinian emancipation, but hatred of Israel.

Update: see Ami’s guest post on Harry’s Place and background from Ben Cohen on Z-Word blog.

Update 2: According to the Facebook group page for Israel, the Palestinians and Apartheid, UCU is co-hosting the Leeds event.

44 Responses to “BRICUP’s guest Bongani Masuku falls foul of Human Rights Commission”

  1. David Schraub Says:

    Is there a link anywhere to the commission’s specific statement and findings?

  2. Joy Wolfe Says:

    I am at a loss to understand how this openly antisemitic
    inciter of hatred is deemed to be acceptable to be allowed into the UK.
    Does this mean that antisemitism has the official seal of approval from the immigration authorities and those who decide who should be denied entry
    I hope it is not too late to keep him out

  3. Bongani Masuku Returns at Z-Word Blog Says:

    […] academic boycott advocates BRICUP. There’s a must-read  post by Alana Pugh-Jones on Engage, here. The essence of it: South Africa’s Human Rights Commission has found Masuku guilty of […]

  4. James Mendelsohn Says:

    very good comment Mira

  5. ami Says:

    Cheers to Alana, who provided some of the sources on which my post was based:
    http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/12/03/bricup-and-bongani/

  6. maasanova Says:

    Whenever I see postings of people kevetching like this I just laugh.

    I’ve seen worse hate speech from the Jewish extremists in Israel towards the Palestinians. Here are some examples of hate speech which openly threatened the lives of innocent civilians:

    -Deputy Defense Minister Matan Vilna’i

    “As the rocket fire grows, and the range increases… they are bringing upon themselves a greater ‘Shoah’ because we will use all our strength in every way we deem appropriate,” Vilna’i told Army Radio.

    American Jewish and spy and traitor Jonathon Pollard:

    “Netanyahu should take the list of prisoners Hamas requested and kill one of them every day until they release Gilad from prison.”

    Killing of civilians proposed by Rabbi Yaakov Yosef, Rabbi Dov Lior, Rabbi Shalom Dov Wolpe and Rabbi Meir Mazuz.

    “When a population living near a Jewish town sends bombs at the Jewish town with the purpose of killing and destroying Jewish lives there, it is permitted, according to Jewish Law, to fire shells and bombs at the firing sites, even if they are populated by civilians,” read a ruling issued by Rabbi Yaakov Yosef, Rabbi Dov Lior, Rabbi Shalom Dov Wolpe and Rabbi Meir Mazuz.

    Plus lets not forget the drunken Israelis who were videotaped by Max Blumenthal calling Obama the ‘n’-word and proposing that he be assasinated.

    Plus the IDF used weapons of mass destuction on a defenseless civilian population.

    • Mira Vogel Says:

      “I’ve seen worse hate speech from the Jewish extremists in Israel towards the Palestinians.”

      And you laugh when Palestinians and their advocates kvetch, right?

    • Evan Says:

      “Plus lets not forget the drunken Israelis who were videotaped by Max Blumenthal calling Obama the ‘n’-word and proposing that he be assasinated.”

      Drunken American Jews visiting Israel, you mean?

  7. maasanova Says:

    These hate speech laws, when not acted on violate basic human rights and the world knows it. Did Bongani Masuku kill anyone or did he just tell the truth about murdering Zionists?

    • Mira Vogel Says:

      Neither.

      Alana sent the following some time before the HRC found that his statements amounted to hate speech:

      THREATS MADE AGAINST SOUTH AFRICAN JEWISH COMMUNITY BY BONGANI MASUKU, INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS SECRETARY OF THE CONGRESS OF SOUTH AFRICA TRADE UNIONS (COSATU)

      1) COSATU to harass, intimidate and disrupt lives of all Jewish supporters of Israel

      “We want to convey a message to the Jews in South Africa that our 1.9-million workers who are affiliated to COSATU are fully behind the people of Palestine… Any business owned by Israel supporters will be a target of workers in South Africa” [Source: Address at COSATU-Palestinian Solidarity Committee rally in Raedene, 6 February 2009].

      ‘COSATU is with you, we will do everything to make sure that whether it’s at Wits University, whether its at Orange Grove, anyone who does not support equality and dignity, who does not support the rights of other people must face the consequences even if it means that we will do something that may necessarily cause what is regarded as harm …[Source: Address at public meeting on Wits University Campus, 5 March 2009]

      Speaking on Wits campus on 5 March this year, Masuku used the expression “make their lives hell” on four occasions when referring to what COSATU intended to do regarding those who supported Israel. This included a specific reference to students on Wits campus (COSATU has got members here even on this campus; we can make sure that for that side it will be hell”) [Source: Address at public meeting on Wits University Campus, 5 March 2009]

      Bongani says hi to you all as we struggle to liberate Palestine from the racists, fascists and zionists who belong to the era of their Friend Hitler! We must not apologise, every Zionist must be made to drink the bitter medicine they are feeding our broathers (sic) and sisters in Palestine. We must target them, expose them and doo allthat (sic) is needed to subject them to pereptual suffering until they withdraw from the land of others and stop their savage attacks on human dignity [Source: Comment left by Masuku on supernatural.blogs.com/, 6/2/2009]

      2) Threats to Target Individual Jewish Families
      On 5 March, Mosuku indicated that vigilante action would be taken against South African families whose children were serving in the Israeli Defense Force:

      “The following things are going to apply: any South African family, I want to repeat so that it is clear for anyone, any South African family who sends its son or daughter to be part of the Israeli Defence Force must not blame us when something happens to them with immediate effect” [Source: Address at public meeting on Wits University Campus, 5 March 2009]

      The biggest problem, said Cosatu International Secretary, Omgabongani Masuku, is with Jewish South Africans who hold duel citizenship with Israel. He condemned the government for allowing South Africans to be involved in what he called “missionaries of Apartheid”. “Israel is spreading and defending Apartheid and we say that South African families who contribute to this must be targeted.” [Source: Voice of the Cape website 20-26 February 2009]

      3) Jewish supporters of Israel unwelcome in South Africa and should be encouraged/forced to leave

      “…all who have not accepted or woken up to the reality that we now live in a democratic South Africa where racism or promotion of it is a crime, are free to leave the country. I repeat, whether Jew or whosoever does so, must not just be encouraged but forced to leave, for such a crime is so heinous it cant be tolerated”. [Source: e-mail from Masuku sent to Anthony Posner, 13 February 2009]

      “…all who deny that occupation is wrong must be encouraged to leave South Africa before they infect our society with much more racism”. [Source: e-mail from Masuku sent to multiple recipients, 13 February 2009]

      4) Dehumanisation and demonisation of Jews who support Israel

      “All Jews who have risen above the fascist parochial paranoia of Israel have changed our views on Jews, as we thought all of them are inhumane…” [Source: e-mail from Masuku sent to multiple recipients, 25 February 2009]

      “Whenever we speak about their evil acts, we must be called anti-semitic, but they have the god-ordained right to murder, rape and kill innocent children in Palestine. … [Source: e-mail from Masuku sent to Anthony Posner, 13 February 2009]

      I am aware that so many Jews are on the side of justice and only those Jews are people I hold in high esteem, but not those who silently support the massacres, but expect us to regard them as human beings. [Source: e-mail from Masuku sent to multiple recipients, 25 February 2009]

      STATEMENTS MADE AGAINST THE STATE OF ISRAEL BY BONGANI MASUKU, INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS SECRETARY OF THE CONGRESS OF SOUTH AFRICA TRADE UNIONS (COSATU)

      Israel supported apartheid South Africa and assisted in the murder of many of our comrades and still works with the most reactionary and murderous regimes the world over, including Colombia (also financed by the US)

      The source of the war is the occupation of Israeli and not rockets of Hamas or Al-Aqsa matrys. Any people who are occupied have a duty to fight as we all did, we would never support people who only submit to invaders, but will actively support those who are fighting against colonialists and settlers, who have one intention, occupation to steal other people’s land. No jew, however much his hatred will ever deny that FACT that occupation is evil and an injustice

      Israel is the client and puppet of US imperialism and responsible for protecting the oil interests of the west, which itself was stolen from the Arabs [Source: e-mail from Masuku sent to multiple recipients, 25 February 2009]

      “The simple thing is that Israel is the source of the problem, without occupation, there should be no need for rockets, full stop!!!” [Source: e-mail from Masuku sent to Anthony Posner, 13 February 2009]

      The issue is that Israeli must GET OUT OF OTHER PEOPLE’S LANDS. There would be no need for rockets if there was no occupation, full stop. I am not interested in the hell about rockets, as if there should be pity, you are the agressors, get out of other people’s lands, you greedy lots! We waged an armed struggle against the Afrikaner murderers here and they are in their rights to wage their own struggle until you vacate their land. [Source: e-mail from Masuku sent to Anthony Posner, 13 February 2009]

  8. Richard Gold Says:

    According to the facebook group for the meeting at Leeds
    ” The British Committee for the Universities of Palestine and UCU presentIsrael, the Palestinians & Apartheid: The Case for BDS”

    SO UCU are involved and Gavin Reid Chair of Leeds UCU is chairing the meeting.
    http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=184244677909&ref=share

  9. maasanova Says:

    Mira,

    Those statements don’t sound very hateful or threatening to me, perhaps you and other people may disagree with them, but he is not threatening the life of any Jews.

    Who decides that these are hateful statements? Let me guess, it’s a Jewish group right who decides right? Is the Board of Jewish Deputies now dictating life in South Africa; violating basic human rights and deciding what speech is tolerated.

    • Mira Vogel Says:

      Thankfully it’s not for you to say whether the statements are hateful or threatening.

      What you seem to be saying though is that the South African Human Rights Commission is the puppet of the Jews. Think about what else has to be true in order for that to be true.

      We can’t have you using this blog as a platform for your prejudices, Maasanova. We’ll have to refuse your comments if you continue like this.

  10. maasanova Says:

    No, I said nothing about the South African Human Rights Commission being the “puppet of the Jews.”

    I’m asking you WHO decides what is hate speech, ? Is it the South African Board of Jewish Deputies who decides what speech is tolerated? Do they write the rules regarding speech and behaviour, like the Anti-Defamation League of B’nai B’rith wrote the hate speech laws here in the US?

    Who writes the laws, what are the parameters of the laws and if possible, do you have a link to the laws so that a predjudiced person like myself can go an read up on it?

  11. Inna Says:

    maasanova–

    When you say “did he just tell the truth about murdering Zionists?” are you saying that all Zionists are murderers?

    Let me be crystal clear–are you calling me a murderer?

    Because if you are, I consider that an extremely hateful statement and would like you to tell me who you think I have murdered.

    Regards,

    Inna

  12. luny Says:

    This is not racial, ethnic or religious hatred.
    If anything its political hatred, its a promise to make life for supporters of a certain political idea hell.

    Or is Engage proposing that making life “hell” for supporters of the BNP ,Hamas or Ahmadinejad constitutes “hate speech?

  13. Anthony Posner Says:

    I have sent the following to Cosatu’s spokesperson, Patrick Craven…

    Dear Patrick Craven,
    http://www.richmarksentinel.com/rs_headlines.asp?recid=3417

    When will Cosatu issue a statement with regard to The SAHRC’s recent hate speech ruling against your International Relations Secretary, Bongani Masuku?

    Please let us know asap whether Cosatu still supports the use of hate speech. If so, does The ANC concur and should we now conclude that hate speech has the SA government’s stamp of approval?

    yours sincerely
    Anthony Posner

    I have sent the following to David Sacks at The SAJBD..

    Dear David,
    I am delighted to read that The SAJBD has been able to gain a “hate speech” verdict against Bongani Masuku.

    However, on what basis has The SAJBD decided that an apology from Masuku would be an appropriate way to resolve this matter? Surely, it is letting Masuku off the hook?

    kind regards
    Anthony Posner

  14. Absolute Observer Says:

    How to oppose Jewish exploitation of hate laws.

    1. Complain that the comments were not that bad, and, then,
    2. Complain that Jews in other countries have said worse things.
    3. Complain Jews control the country which has found that the case for hate speech has been made.

    Now that’s what you call a well thought through anti-racist strategy!

  15. Anthony Posner Says:

    I have emailed the following to the foreign secretary…

    Dear Mr Miliband,

    Much debate occurred when The Foreign Office recently tried to prevent Geert Wilders from entering The UK.

    However, did you know that Mr Bongani Masuku ( Cosatu’s International Relations Officer) has, in fact, recently arrived in The UK from South Africa, with the purpose of addressing address various anti-zionist meetings.

    Are you aware that The South African Human Rights Commission found that Mr Masuku had contravened South Africa’s constitution in respect of hate speech?

    http://www.richmarksentinel.com/rs_headlines.asp?recid=3417

    https://engageonline.wordpress.com/2009/12/03/bongani-masuku-bricup-boycott/

    It seems that your government is being inconsistent. One might even argue that double standards are being applied! Please explain why Mr Masuku’s hate speech is acceptable and has not prevented him from being excluded from The UK.

    yours sincerely
    Anthony Posner

  16. duncan bryson Says:

    As this is now being promoted as a UCU event, what is the legal position of the union given that a similar tour was dropped on those grounds in the past?

  17. Brian Goldfarb Says:

    “I’m asking you WHO decides what is hate speech, ? Is it the South African Board of Jewish Deputies who decides what speech is tolerated? Do they write the rules regarding speech and behaviour, like the Anti-Defamation League of B’nai B’rith wrote the hate speech laws here in the US?

    Who writes the laws, what are the parameters of the laws and if possible, do you have a link to the laws so that a predjudiced person like myself can go an read up on it?”

    Who decides, maasanova? The SA Human Rights people; all the Board of Deputies does is report it, without any control over what the outcome will be. Who writes the laws? The SA government and the SA Parliament (or whatever it’s called) passes the laws, and establishes the Human Rights Board and decides on its rules and regulations, etc.

    Any suggestion that any other group in SA does this (bearing in mind that the SA Government and Parliament is dominated by the African NationalCongress) is tantamount to saying that _that_ group does the controlling. If that group is Jewish, it’s antisemitism to make this suggestion; if it’s Moslem, it’s Islamophobic, if it’s any shade of skin other than pink, it’s racist.

    Got anything to add, maasanova? Perhaps you should read my article below this one on conspiracy theory, and _any_ good sociology text on racism.

  18. Lynne T Says:

    What is truly ironic is that the boycott doesn’t have very broad support among Palestinian trade unionists, and, for all anyone knows, absent the atmosphere of intimidation, whether perpetrated by pro-Fatah factions, pro-Hamas factions, etc., whether the boycott has particularly broad support among Palestinians in the PA and Israel’s Arab citizens.

  19. Absolute Observer Says:

    Good for you luny.

    Let’s make life hell for those who support the idea of Jewish self-determination. Fuck it, what else do they deserve? What right do Jews have to be free of fear wherever they live because they think that Israel is not evil incarnate? Let’s stand outside Jewish businesses and stop people doing business with them? Let’s protest outside Jewish community centres. Even better, before we consider even talking to a Jew, let’s find out their position on Israel and, if we don’t like it, then, let’s do them some harm.

    And, what is the betting that before long they’ll start whining on and on how criticism of Israel is antisemitic and silence our right to free speech.

    Why stop at the Jews. Let’s move on to the Muslims. Let’s make life hell for them. Let’s go to all the shops owned by Muslims and stop people doing business with them. How do we know that they don’t all support the “Islamisation of Europe”? Let’s protest outside Mosques. How do we know they don’t think that 9/11 was the greatest thing ever. Let’s send round a census and ask for their views on Iraq and, if we don’t like their answer, then, hey, let’s do them some hard. (Maybe the ELD and BNP can give you advice on how to organise such events).

    And, the Catholics? How do we know that they don’t support the “Real IRA” and the Omagh bombing? Let’s stand outside shops owned by Catholics and stop people going in. Let’s send round a census before standing outside Churches to see which one’s should be left in peace and whose life should be made hell.

    And, the Protestants. Let’s make their lives hell. Let’s ask them what they think about the war in Iraq (The C of E is the established church in England and Wales)? Let’s boycott their shops and, if we don’t like the answers, let’s do ’em and do ’em good.

    And, what about the Hindus. Yeah, let’s make their life hell too. Let’s ask them what they think about violent attacks in India against Muslim. And, if we don’t like their answer, let’s go down Southalll and stand outside the Temple, and do them some harm.

    After all, “this is not racial, ethnic or religious hatred.
    If anything its political hatred, its a promise to make life for supporters of a certain political idea hell.”

    Mind you, it could be that you think that Zionism is the same as the racism of the BNP, the antisemitism of Hamas and the Holocaust deniers of Iran, in which case you know as much about Zionism and Israel as you do about antisemitism and racism.

    The irony is, I bet you think you’re an anti-racist.

  20. zkharya Says:

    “Finally, I am looking forward to the day when all Jews will openly say, we are not benefiting anything from what Israel is doing in our name, than hiding and silently consenting or grumbling under tables while Israel intensifies its massacres.”

    Is this towards which you are working, Luny?

  21. maasanova Says:

    @ Inna

    When I say “murdering Zionists” I’m talking about IDF soliders who thought it was cute to make t-shirts depicting the shooting pregnant woman and sodomizing Arab leaders.

    Also, when I say murdering Zionists, I am referring to the members of the Israeli government who can’t go to certain countries because they will be tried for war crimes.

    Here, read this article by the Washington Times:

    https://engageonline.wordpress.com/2009/12/03/bongani-masuku-bricup-boycott/

    Israelis may stay home to avoid arrest in Europe this story

    Disputed U.N. report on Gaza war puts officials at risk

    Moshe “Bogie” Ya’alon, a retired Israeli general who now serves as minister for strategic affairs, canceled a trip to London out of concern that he might face an arrest warrant, said Jonathan Peled, a spokesman for the Israeli Embassy in Washington.

    @ Brian Goldfarb:

    I read your article last night. There are so many things wrong with it that I can’t believe that you stand by that article and expect people to take you seriously. It’s not worth any respons period. There are so many confirmed, documented events that you simply write off as a “theory” that there is no debunking needed of your article. The article lacks credibility.

    I would recommend that you, Mr. Goldfarb, hit the books a bit so that you will at least know what you are writing about instead of pretending that you do. Also, keeping up on current as well as historical ones will give you a better grasp on the topics you pretend to know so much about.

    Also, here in the states, the Anti-Defamation League of B’nai B’rith dictates US hate crimes legislation and you can verify that by a simple Google search which will take you to the ADL hate crimes legislation page. Does a similar Jewish “civil rights” advocacy organization dictate hate crimes legislation in South Africa as well?

  22. Bill Says:

    “Also, here in the states, the Anti-Defamation League of B’nai B’rith dictates US hate crimes legislation and you can verify that by a simple Google search which will take you to the ADL hate crimes legislation page.”

    So does the NAACP. So does NOW. So do the various muslim and LBGT groups. What’s your point? Oh yes, we’re not talking about Hate Crimes Legislation, or “Hate Speech” Legislation… We’re talking about Jews. Shame on me for changing the subject.

  23. Absolute Observer Says:

    maasanova,

    No, I said nothing about the South African Human Rights Commission being the “puppet of the Jews.”

    “I’m asking you WHO decides what is hate speech, ? Is it the South African Board of Jewish Deputies who decides what speech is tolerated?”

    Don’t be silly. If you look at the judgement you will see that it was handed down by the SAHRC, of which the SAJBD were but one party to the conflict. The rules upon which the decision rested appear to have been written in the framework of the (new) SA constitution. There are many sources that can explain to you how constitutions in general and the SA constitution in particular reached its final form.

    “Do they write the rules regarding speech and behaviour, like the Anti-Defamation League of B’nai B’rith wrote the hate speech laws here in the US?”

    Could you link to the source of this claim please; or, of a link is not available, the relevant article where this is shown to be the case.

    Could you also me more specific as to what hate speech laws you are referring (i.e. state or federal)? The name of the legislation you are referring to would be fine.

    And, could you please let me know the dates on which these laws that are said to have written by ADL passed through the various state assemblies (at state level) or Congress at Federal Level.

    Could you please let me know the nature of the debates on these laws in these institutions and any amendments that may have arisen

    Could you also point me to those cases where the senior State of Federal Courts have discussed these laws, how they have decided and the reasoning for the majority and dissenting decisions.

    I would also appreciate some links to the discussions in the US press as the hate speech laws progressed through these stages.

    You see, between the writing of a law, the introduction of a law, its passing and its application, there are various stages, all of which have a big effect upon the meaning of the laws in question.

    I only ask because at the moment, your comments to date make you sound like some sort of conspiracy nut rather than someone with something serious to say. I am sure that you understand the need for clarity.

  24. maasanova Says:

    @ Bill

    You are incorrect when you say the NAACP, Muslim and LBGT groups also wrote the legislation. I would love for you to show me how these groups wrote the hate crime legislation when the ADL brags on their website that they wrote it.

    “In June 1993, the United States Supreme Court upheld a Wisconsin hate crime statute that was based on model legislation originally drafted by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) in 1981.1 1 Wisconsin v. Mitchell,
    508 U.S. 476 (1993). ”

    http://www.adl.org/99hatecrime/print.asp

    The Anti-Defamation League actually wrote the 1994 framework for America’s hate crime legislation. As I said previously, a simple Google search will take you to the ADL website so you can read how they wrote the legislation and promoted it to law enforcement agencies across the US.

    Did the South African Board of Jewish Deputies write South Africa’s hate crime laws like the ADL wrote the US hate crime laws?

  25. Absolute Observer Says:

    Apologies, I did not see the Google reference. I will take your word for it.

    However, you make the claim that, a Jewish “civil rights” advocacy organization dictate[s] hate crimes legislation.

    Now, since you have now slipped between “writing” and “dictating” I am afraid for that latter comment to be the case the information I have asked is indeed necessary. Since, as I say, “between the writing of a law, the introduction of a law, its passing and its application, there are various stages, all of which have a big effect upon the meaning of the laws in question.”

  26. Absolute Observer Says:

    Actually, I won’t take your word for anything. I’ve been to the ADL page, typed in hate-speech laws and found nothing to say they wrote them. Please could you provide the link.

    You can do this when sorting out the intermediate stages between the writing and the application of the relevant laws, that is the mediating stages between “writing” and “dictating” – which implies either no intermediate stage or passive acceptance by all concerned for reasons other than free consent.

    Take your time, Indeed, it would be wrong to hurry you considering the task you have set yourself.

  27. Absolute Observer Says:

    “how they wrote the legislation and promoted it to law enforcement agencies” – and what happened in between? I think my questions may help you find the answer.

  28. NIMN Says:

    Did the South African Board of Jewish Deputies write South Africa’s hate crime laws”.

    And so what if they did? What is your point?

  29. maasanova Says:

    Drafting and writing means the same thing in this instance. Here it is for you again since you are trying to pretend that the hate crimes legislation did not originate from the ADL:

    “In June 1993, the United States Supreme Court upheld a Wisconsin hate crime statute that was based on model legislation originally drafted by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) in 1981.1 1 Wisconsin v. Mitchell,
    508 U.S. 476 (1993). ”

  30. modernityblog Says:

    maasanova,

    Wouldn’t it be fair to say that you don’t like the ADL? As one of your blog entries suggests,

    “Abraham Foxman and the Anti-Defamation League debunked”

    http://undertheradarmedia.wordpress.com/2009/01/07/abraham-foxman-and-the-anti-defamation-league-debunked/

  31. Bill Says:

    Funny, I can google (or is that Jewgle) some NAACP legislative victories on civil rights law with no trouble, and I suspect that they, like the ADL isn’t going to do free advertising for their legislative victories either. More still, I certainly can read & recall a number of university speech code sausage factories that include even more prohibitive and blatantly unconstitutional restrictions on expression and activity that benefit protected and unrepresented groups in which all-of-my-above played aggressive and material roles in sponsoring, advocating, and in some cases, co-authoring.

    But once again… we’re really supposed to be talking about your unhinged obsession with J-street, aren’t we.

    “Did the South African Board of Jewish Deputies write South Africa’s hate crime laws like the ADL wrote the US hate crime laws?”

    Well shucks… maybe they did — as did quite a few other identify-centered groups in SA that feel vulnerable to bigotry. And maybe they had help guidance from similar work from the ADL, J-street and AARP, OIC, Canadian Human Rights Commissions and lots of others. Big. Freakin’. Whoop. Heck let’s just reach out for the big brass wring and add the cast and characters from Coast to Coast AM since you seem to be into shadowing goings on.

    But once again… we’re really supposed to be talking about a big badassed Jewish Cabal as the only group with a hand in writing such law (or at least the one group that has no business in doing it among all the others – likely, of course, because they’re Jewish).

  32. maasanova Says:

    I research the ADL and post what I find. I don’t agree with their politics and they probably don’t agree with mine. That’s the great thing about America.

  33. NIMN Says:

    Yes maasanova, writing and drafting means the same in this context. WRITING and DICTATING in this context means two different things.

    To substantiate this claim you would need to bring to the fore the intermediate stages that I mentioned; since, and I will repeat,
    “between the writing [or drafting] of a law, the introduction of a law, its passing and its application, there are various stages, all of which have a big effect upon the meaning of the laws in question.”

    “Here it is for you again since you are trying to pretend that the hate crimes legislation did not originate from the ADL”

    Please do not accuse me of male fide, I said I could not find it. I typed in hate speech ADL, and could not find it.

    Be that as it may, I await your reply on the various stages of the passage and application of the hate speech law that you refer. (Does it have a name or reference?)

  34. maasanova Says:

    @NIMN

    If you read the link which comes from The Jewish Week, it would appear that the US has an unelected body that is dictating to local law enforcement the laws in which they themselves have drafted/written:

    http://www.thejewishweek.com/viewArticle/c51_a17104/Editorial__Opinion/Editorial.html

    “The ADL is hardly resting on its laurels; the group is now turning its attention to working with federal law enforcement officials to develop programs for training and implementation. The rules governing the new law will go a long way toward determining its effectiveness. We trust ADL will be just as persistent and effective in this as they were over the 12 long years it took to pass the new hate crimes law. “

  35. Absolutely Observer Says:

    Oh God…….a blogger who links to things
    “The news you’re not supposed to know” and calls himself “under the radar”!!

    As I thought, another loon! and here’s the proof,
    “the recent YouTube takeover by the Anti-Defamation League”

    Careful maasanova, they’re gonna darn well put a chip in y’all brain before long.

    Nutter!

  36. Inna Says:

    maasanova–

    “When I say “murdering Zionists” I’m talking about IDF soliders …”

    Perhaps then you might want to say not Zionists (such as myself) but the particular IDF soldiers you have in mind. Heck you might even name their names. Of course you will not be able to then justify Bongani Masuku’s hate speech but at least you will not be making hate speech of your very own.

    Regards,

    Inna

  37. Anthony Posner Says:

    Alana,
    It seems that since you were writing on behalf of The SAJBD, you were unable to conclude that The SAHRC has, in fact, found Masuku’s various statements to be anti-semitic.

    The SAHRC’s judgment concludes.. “The comments and statements made are of an extreme nature that advocate and imply that the Jewish and Israeli community are to be despised, scorned, ridiculed and thus subjecting them to ill-treatment on the basis of their religious affiliation.” 

    Although The SAHRC does not use the word “anti-semitic”, there can be no doubt that the previous quotation, is in fact stating that Masuku is anti-semitic. I can think of no other term that accurately encompasses The SAHRC’s conclusion.

  38. Anthony Posner Says:

    Cosatu’s International Relations Secretary, Bongani Masuku is not going to apologize after The SAHRC found him guilty of hate speech in respect of his comments concerning Jews and Israel. The SAHRC requested an apology, but Cosatu and Masuku have decided to appeal the The SAHRC’s decision. They are on the offensive and are not prepared to show any remorse whatsoever.

    The Palestinian Solidarity Committee (PSC) has intervened with a media release entitled “SAHRC errs in hate speech ruling against COSATU’s Masuku”.

    So… does The PSC control Cosatu? And if it doesn’t, why did The PSC issue the media release?

    The PSC writes: “None of Bongani’s statements can be regarded as being ‘advocacy of hatred’ based on ‘race, ethnicity, gender or religion’. He did not refer to Jews, as is being alleged. The gleeful and smug comment by the SAJBD, following the SAHRC decision, is simply untrue. Their claim that Bongani’s comments ‘advocate and imply that the Jewish and Israeli community are to be despised, scorned, ridiculed and thus subjecting them to ill-treatment on the basis of their religious affiliation’ is a pack of lies.”

    However, it should be noted that this assertion by The SAJBD was, in fact, based upon The SAHRC’s findings. It was The SAHRC which actually concluded that “The comments and statements made are of an extreme nature that advocate and imply that the Jewish and Israeli community are to be despised, scorned, ridiculed and thus subjecting them to ill-treatment on the basis of their religious affiliation.”

    Bear in mind, that according to The PSC/Cosatu, this statement is, moreover, “a pack of lies”. On that basis alone, it does appear that Cosatu is in contempt of The SAHRC. As a result, one should be more than a little concerned about the respect that Cosatu has for the constitution and human rights in South Africa. When one adds in the political reality that Cosatu has a major stake within the current ANC government, one might also fear for the health of the fledgling democracy.

  39. Anthony Posner Says:

    The idea of trying to look directly into the head, heart and soul of a Jew is nothing new. In this regard, Cosatu’s Bongani Masuku should not for one moment imagine that he is being original. Nothing could be further from the truth. Throughout history there have been many Inquisitors. Some of them were legends in their own life-time and Masuku would do well to read precisely what they got up to.
    In October 1483, for example, Torquemada, Inquisitor General of Castile, was also appointed Inquisitor General of Aragon, putting the entire Spanish Inquisition under a single authority. In March 1492, a plan for the expulsion of The Jews was drawn up by Torquemada and by August 1492 all of Spain’s Jews were forced to depart.
    Of course, it is unlikely that Bongani knows much about Jewish history. So one shouldn’t blame him for not realizing that other Inquisitors also zealously tried to sort out The Jews. After all, we are a troublesome people.
    Take a look at the following quotations from Bongani Masuku and ask yourself whether he will go down in history.
    Speaking on Wits campus on 5 March this year, Masuku used the expression “make their lives hell” on four occasions when referring to what COSATU intended to do regarding those who supported Israel. This included a specific reference to students on Wits campus (COSATU has got members here even on this campus; we can make sure that for that side it will be hell”) [Source: Address at public meeting on Wits University Campus, 5 March 2009]
    “The following things are going to apply: any South African family, I want to repeat so that it is clear for anyone, any South African family who sends its son or daughter to be part of the Israeli Defence Force must not blame us when something happens to them with immediate effect” [Source: Address at public meeting on Wits University Campus, 5 March 2009]
    “You can leave this country. We will defeat the racists” “I don’t care whether it is antisemitic” “Anyone who handles goods to or from Israel…Beware!” “Your life will be hell”.[Source: Address at public meeting on Wits University Campus, 5 March 2009]
    “…all who have not accepted or woken up to the reality that we now live in a democratic South Africa where racism or promotion of it is a crime, are free to leave the country. I repeat, whether Jew or whosoever does so, must not just be encouraged but forced to leave, for such a crime is so heinous it cant be tolerated”. [Source: e-mail from Masuku sent to Anthony Posner, 13 February 2009]
    “…all who deny that occupation is wrong must be encouraged to leave South Africa before they infect our society with much more racism”. [Source: e-mail from Masuku sent to multiple recipients, 13 February 2009]
    “Whenever we speak about their evil acts, we must be called anti-semitic, but they have the god-ordained right to murder, rape and kill innocent children in Palestine. … [Source: e-mail from Masuku sent to Anthony Posner, 13 February 2009]
    “I am aware that so many Jews are on the side of justice and only those Jews are people I hold in high esteem, but not those who silently support the massacres, but expect us to regard them as human beings.’ [Source: e-mail from Masuku sent to multiple recipients, 25 February 2009]
    “The issue is that Israeli must GET OUT OF OTHER PEOPLE’S LANDS. There would be no need for rockets if there was no occupation, full stop. I am not interested in the hell about rockets, as if there should be pity, you are the agressors, get out of other people’s lands, you greedy lots! We waged an armed struggle against the Afrikaner murderers here and they are in their rights to wage their own struggle until you vacate their land.” [Source: e-mail from Masuku sent to Anthony Posner, 13 February 2009]

  40. Fair Play Campaign Group » Blog Archive » Bongani Masuku: An invited guest of UCU Says:

    […] on Harry’s Place highlighted more examples of Masuku’s threats, and ENGAGE reported that South African Human Rights Commission ruled that Masuku’s comments are Hate Speech. If […]


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